<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:series="http://organizeseries.com/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Domestication Now!</title>
	<atom:link href="/2015/04/07/domestication-now/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/</link>
	<description>Notes and Queries in Anthropology</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2017 18:00:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: John hartigan</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837252</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John hartigan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And PS: no I did not say maize/humans are &quot;co-equal&quot; partners. I and many others are questioning the way we figure causal arrows, intention, and intelligence in characterizing domestication--a subject which, given the array of nonhumans who also practice it, needs to be rendered in less anthropocentric terms.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And PS: no I did not say maize/humans are &#8220;co-equal&#8221; partners. I and many others are questioning the way we figure causal arrows, intention, and intelligence in characterizing domestication&#8211;a subject which, given the array of nonhumans who also practice it, needs to be rendered in less anthropocentric terms.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jhartiganj</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837251</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jhartiganj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, trying to catch up here on the last round of comments: the ethnographic work I’ve undertaken with maize and in several botanical gardens in Spain over the last four years aims at extending cultural analysis through engaging an array of nonhumans. With maize, I applied Foucault’s concept of “care of the self” to the selfing of maize in greenhouses and experimental fields http://www.maydica.org/articles/48_259.pdf —it’s not anthropomorphizing; any organism maintaining homeostasis has a self. I’m not suggesting it amounts to a “person” (bearing rights/obligations, though the question of whether a species can be a person is an interesting on (see Carrithers et al, 2011: http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/661287 ) The process by which care of the self easily extends across species lines brings me to theorize “care of the species”, which is the title of the manuscript that I aim to finish this year and that will be published by University of Minnesota Press. You’ll have to be patient on the details, but it develops via a focus on the sexual history of maize, its racial identities, and its powerful capacity to present an account of place-based dynamics, which I take to be central concern of ethnography. As for the cultural aspect here, please see my detailed account in Aesop’s Anthropology https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/aesopas-anthropology; the gist is that “culture” is metaphorically applied to humans; it begins with plants and soil and their interactions with humans (what we call domestication)—more on all this in my following posts on “nonhuman cultures.” But the crux of all this is, I’m more interested in what’s happening with the species than I am in what plant scientists think about (ideologically) as they’re working with maize. This is a significant shift in ethnographic practice, hence my stance that this is an ethnography of maize. And it’s not the kind of analysis that botanists or taxonomists or plant geneticists would generate—to account for the dynamics of cultivation, you need an anthropologist.
On specific comments: &lt;strong&gt;johnmccreery&lt;/strong&gt;, I couldn’t agree more; I love the idea of “ethnographic involutions” and your critique of the narrowing of this analytical space. And yes, lump me in with the “science” side of the discipline; I’m happy over there. 
&lt;strong&gt;TNT&lt;/strong&gt;: thanks for the tip on Cuban Counterpoint. I’ll have to read it before I have an answer for your question, but I do appreciate the suggestions—sounds quite relevant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, trying to catch up here on the last round of comments: the ethnographic work I’ve undertaken with maize and in several botanical gardens in Spain over the last four years aims at extending cultural analysis through engaging an array of nonhumans. With maize, I applied Foucault’s concept of “care of the self” to the selfing of maize in greenhouses and experimental fields <a href="http://www.maydica.org/articles/48_259.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.maydica.org/articles/48_259.pdf</a> —it’s not anthropomorphizing; any organism maintaining homeostasis has a self. I’m not suggesting it amounts to a “person” (bearing rights/obligations, though the question of whether a species can be a person is an interesting on (see Carrithers et al, 2011: <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/661287" rel="nofollow">http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/661287</a> ) The process by which care of the self easily extends across species lines brings me to theorize “care of the species”, which is the title of the manuscript that I aim to finish this year and that will be published by University of Minnesota Press. You’ll have to be patient on the details, but it develops via a focus on the sexual history of maize, its racial identities, and its powerful capacity to present an account of place-based dynamics, which I take to be central concern of ethnography. As for the cultural aspect here, please see my detailed account in Aesop’s Anthropology <a href="https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/aesopas-anthropology" rel="nofollow">https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/aesopas-anthropology</a>; the gist is that “culture” is metaphorically applied to humans; it begins with plants and soil and their interactions with humans (what we call domestication)—more on all this in my following posts on “nonhuman cultures.” But the crux of all this is, I’m more interested in what’s happening with the species than I am in what plant scientists think about (ideologically) as they’re working with maize. This is a significant shift in ethnographic practice, hence my stance that this is an ethnography of maize. And it’s not the kind of analysis that botanists or taxonomists or plant geneticists would generate—to account for the dynamics of cultivation, you need an anthropologist.<br />
On specific comments: <strong>johnmccreery</strong>, I couldn’t agree more; I love the idea of “ethnographic involutions” and your critique of the narrowing of this analytical space. And yes, lump me in with the “science” side of the discipline; I’m happy over there.<br />
<strong>TNT</strong>: thanks for the tip on Cuban Counterpoint. I’ll have to read it before I have an answer for your question, but I do appreciate the suggestions—sounds quite relevant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: johnmccreery</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837245</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johnmccreery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 00:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Has Hartigan actually endorsed the propositions that


Humans and maize are coequal partners, or
Maize has a strategy?


I may have missed something, but in nothing I have read by Hartigan, or for that matter Latour, have I seen anything that would support these claims. And human life as I know it frequently includes unequal partners and rarely includes strategists. Most of us are just bumbling along. Why shouldn&#039;t our interactions with other species be seen in the same light?

A careful reading of Hartigan suggests to me that what he is up to is pushing the boundaries of conventional thinking about ethnography and he is conscious of what he is doing. Will he succeed? We don&#039;t  know yet. Should we say,&quot;You can&#039;t do that&quot; because it violates current conventional wisdom? Remember Galileo? Remember Darwin?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has Hartigan actually endorsed the propositions that</p>
<p>Humans and maize are coequal partners, or<br />
Maize has a strategy?</p>
<p>I may have missed something, but in nothing I have read by Hartigan, or for that matter Latour, have I seen anything that would support these claims. And human life as I know it frequently includes unequal partners and rarely includes strategists. Most of us are just bumbling along. Why shouldn&#8217;t our interactions with other species be seen in the same light?</p>
<p>A careful reading of Hartigan suggests to me that what he is up to is pushing the boundaries of conventional thinking about ethnography and he is conscious of what he is doing. Will he succeed? We don&#8217;t  know yet. Should we say,&#8221;You can&#8217;t do that&#8221; because it violates current conventional wisdom? Remember Galileo? Remember Darwin?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TNT</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837243</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TNT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am skeptical about an &quot;ethnography of&quot; an entity. But I do accept that serious analytic work can come from closely tracing certain items.  This is not a new approach to discussing history, cultural change, and society. For example, in 1940, Fernando Ortiz Fernandez wrote Cuban Counterpoint, Tobacco and Sugar in which he described  the socioeconomic basis of the emergence of the Cuban state by tracing two of its most historically important commodities--this analytic move granted him the ability to both discuss population decline (Amerindian) and displacement (European &#038; African slaves) and also what he called &quot;transculturation,&quot; which was in effect the mutual effects of culture contact on populations. By tracing the two aforementioned entities across time and space, Ortiz highlighted the particular practices associated with their production and consumption. Often these differences displayed how an entity, such as tobacco, could be used nearly exclusively among certain groups, Amerindians, for group ritual purposes and among others, Europeans, for personal leisure. Or how Sugar cane labor would in turn produce rum.

The question then that comes to my mind is if Professor Hartigan is employing a similar approach?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am skeptical about an &#8220;ethnography of&#8221; an entity. But I do accept that serious analytic work can come from closely tracing certain items.  This is not a new approach to discussing history, cultural change, and society. For example, in 1940, Fernando Ortiz Fernandez wrote Cuban Counterpoint, Tobacco and Sugar in which he described  the socioeconomic basis of the emergence of the Cuban state by tracing two of its most historically important commodities&#8211;this analytic move granted him the ability to both discuss population decline (Amerindian) and displacement (European &amp; African slaves) and also what he called &#8220;transculturation,&#8221; which was in effect the mutual effects of culture contact on populations. By tracing the two aforementioned entities across time and space, Ortiz highlighted the particular practices associated with their production and consumption. Often these differences displayed how an entity, such as tobacco, could be used nearly exclusively among certain groups, Amerindians, for group ritual purposes and among others, Europeans, for personal leisure. Or how Sugar cane labor would in turn produce rum.</p>
<p>The question then that comes to my mind is if Professor Hartigan is employing a similar approach?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A. J. West (@AlWest13)</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837239</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A. J. West (@AlWest13)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Hartigan is a scientist&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Remember: he&#039;s doing an &#039;ethnography of maize&#039;, and endorses the notion that humans and plants are co-equal partners in the plants&#039; domestication, which they aren&#039;t, unless you&#039;re happy with the idea that some ancestral maize plants (eg) voluntary died in order to promote other kinds of maize that humans would find more productive. Or, well, unless you&#039;re happy with the idea that maize can voluntarily do anything. Which it can&#039;t. It&#039;s a plant.

&lt;blockquote&gt;That answer may not yet be fully developed. That, however, is no reason to rule out any possible answer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not ruling out every possible answer. I just see no reason to believe that maize had a strategy with its interactions with humans; I&#039;m not ruling it a priori, I merely see no reason whatsoever to believe it. I see no reason to believe that maize decided to be domesticated in any way at all. I see no reason to look at domestication by ignoring human intention, beliefs, and desires. No reason has been provided for any of this; it&#039;s just been stated to be the latest thing, the new thing, the revolutionary thing that overturns our previous understanding. That&#039;s not sufficient.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Neither do Navajos.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.navajotimes.com/entertainment/2007/1026oratorio.php#.VSvMc5MrKyk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;No?&lt;/a&gt;

Strictly speaking only the librettist is Navajo, but the point is: Navajo people &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; write symphonies if they wanted to, whereas &lt;i&gt;dandelions couldn&#039;t even want to&lt;/i&gt;. Because people are one thing, plants are another. There may be shades of grey in between, but that doesn&#039;t mean we can&#039;t make some pretty important distinctions between things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Hartigan is a scientist</p></blockquote>
<p>Remember: he&#8217;s doing an &#8216;ethnography of maize&#8217;, and endorses the notion that humans and plants are co-equal partners in the plants&#8217; domestication, which they aren&#8217;t, unless you&#8217;re happy with the idea that some ancestral maize plants (eg) voluntary died in order to promote other kinds of maize that humans would find more productive. Or, well, unless you&#8217;re happy with the idea that maize can voluntarily do anything. Which it can&#8217;t. It&#8217;s a plant.</p>
<blockquote><p>That answer may not yet be fully developed. That, however, is no reason to rule out any possible answer.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not ruling out every possible answer. I just see no reason to believe that maize had a strategy with its interactions with humans; I&#8217;m not ruling it a priori, I merely see no reason whatsoever to believe it. I see no reason to believe that maize decided to be domesticated in any way at all. I see no reason to look at domestication by ignoring human intention, beliefs, and desires. No reason has been provided for any of this; it&#8217;s just been stated to be the latest thing, the new thing, the revolutionary thing that overturns our previous understanding. That&#8217;s not sufficient.</p>
<blockquote><p>Neither do Navajos.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.navajotimes.com/entertainment/2007/1026oratorio.php#.VSvMc5MrKyk" rel="nofollow">No?</a></p>
<p>Strictly speaking only the librettist is Navajo, but the point is: Navajo people <i>could</i> write symphonies if they wanted to, whereas <i>dandelions couldn&#8217;t even want to</i>. Because people are one thing, plants are another. There may be shades of grey in between, but that doesn&#8217;t mean we can&#8217;t make some pretty important distinctions between things.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A. J. West (@AlWest13)</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A. J. West (@AlWest13)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 05:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t mean that you should cut your losses in terms of money or social capital. I mean you should stop throwing good money after bad &lt;i&gt;intellectually&lt;/i&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t mean that you should cut your losses in terms of money or social capital. I mean you should stop throwing good money after bad <i>intellectually</i>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: johnmccreery</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johnmccreery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2015 23:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me start with a proposition. West is a metaphysician, Hartigan is a scientist. Like other metaphysicisns, West is adamant that he knows the Truth, what in some eternal, essential sense such things as ethnography, science, and mind MUST BE. He will defend his distinctions to the death. His anxieties are evident in appeal to &quot;appropriateness,&quot; as if what is appropriate could be prescribed, and in red herrings like the claim that dandelions do not write symphonies. Neither do Navajos. In contrast Hartigan is a scientist, still figuring out perhaps just what his problem is and how it might best be tackled. He has the scientist&#039;s  habit of looking at what other people take to be obvious and looking for the unexpected. He can write, as he does in another post in this series,

&lt;i&gt;This also reflects shifting sensibilities among researchers, that what we observe other species doing is not a matter of anthropocentric projection but rather a fairly accurate perception of homologous activities.&lt;/i&gt;

Which brings us to a serious question about the possibility of doing an ethnography of maize. It needs to be spelled out a bit more clearly how &quot;ethnography of maize&quot; implies activities perceptibly homologus with those involved in ethnography of humans. That answer may not yet be fully developed. That, however, is no reason to rule out any possible answer. If it were, we would have no science at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me start with a proposition. West is a metaphysician, Hartigan is a scientist. Like other metaphysicisns, West is adamant that he knows the Truth, what in some eternal, essential sense such things as ethnography, science, and mind MUST BE. He will defend his distinctions to the death. His anxieties are evident in appeal to &#8220;appropriateness,&#8221; as if what is appropriate could be prescribed, and in red herrings like the claim that dandelions do not write symphonies. Neither do Navajos. In contrast Hartigan is a scientist, still figuring out perhaps just what his problem is and how it might best be tackled. He has the scientist&#8217;s  habit of looking at what other people take to be obvious and looking for the unexpected. He can write, as he does in another post in this series,</p>
<p><i>This also reflects shifting sensibilities among researchers, that what we observe other species doing is not a matter of anthropocentric projection but rather a fairly accurate perception of homologous activities.</i></p>
<p>Which brings us to a serious question about the possibility of doing an ethnography of maize. It needs to be spelled out a bit more clearly how &#8220;ethnography of maize&#8221; implies activities perceptibly homologus with those involved in ethnography of humans. That answer may not yet be fully developed. That, however, is no reason to rule out any possible answer. If it were, we would have no science at all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John hartigan</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837224</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John hartigan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s funny. If I quit every time I was told to cut my losses I wouldn&#039;t be guest blogging on Savage Minds. Good luck!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s funny. If I quit every time I was told to cut my losses I wouldn&#8217;t be guest blogging on Savage Minds. Good luck!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A. J. West (@AlWest13)</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837221</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A. J. West (@AlWest13)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837221</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;And I disagree: thinking subjects aren’t requisite for ethnography.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Christ.

There was a time when ethnographers justified separating anthropology from &#039;science&#039; on the grounds that humans, as clever agents capable of thinking about and rationalising their acts, are qualitatively different from, say, corn, which can&#039;t do those things. &lt;i&gt;You cannot do an ethnography of a plant.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s the same reason that we don&#039;t see books written about the poems of pineapples or the symphonies of dandelions or the scientific investigations undertaken by crabgrass. There may not be an absolute distinction between humans and plants or whatever else you like, but the fact is that dandelions don&#039;t compose symphonies. It would be inappropriate for a musicologist to claim to be doing a musicological study of dandelion-Beethoven.

It is likewise inappropriate for an anthropologist to claim to be doing an &#039;ethnography of corn&#039;.

I don&#039;t think the emperor&#039;s new clothes mechanism is sufficient to explain what you&#039;re doing. There&#039;s also the sunk cost fallacy to take into account. I suppose you&#039;ve invested significant time and energy in this pursuit; it must be tempting to keep throwing good money after bad. I suggest cutting your losses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And I disagree: thinking subjects aren’t requisite for ethnography.</p></blockquote>
<p>Christ.</p>
<p>There was a time when ethnographers justified separating anthropology from &#8216;science&#8217; on the grounds that humans, as clever agents capable of thinking about and rationalising their acts, are qualitatively different from, say, corn, which can&#8217;t do those things. <i>You cannot do an ethnography of a plant.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s the same reason that we don&#8217;t see books written about the poems of pineapples or the symphonies of dandelions or the scientific investigations undertaken by crabgrass. There may not be an absolute distinction between humans and plants or whatever else you like, but the fact is that dandelions don&#8217;t compose symphonies. It would be inappropriate for a musicologist to claim to be doing a musicological study of dandelion-Beethoven.</p>
<p>It is likewise inappropriate for an anthropologist to claim to be doing an &#8216;ethnography of corn&#8217;.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the emperor&#8217;s new clothes mechanism is sufficient to explain what you&#8217;re doing. There&#8217;s also the sunk cost fallacy to take into account. I suppose you&#8217;ve invested significant time and energy in this pursuit; it must be tempting to keep throwing good money after bad. I suggest cutting your losses.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Vijay</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837220</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vijay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2015 03:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that, at this point, AJWest13 can continue a conversation with maize and get more intelligent responses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that, at this point, AJWest13 can continue a conversation with maize and get more intelligent responses.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: johnmccreery</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837219</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johnmccreery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2015 00:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837219</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[May I suggest an amendment: &quot;We lose all that when we equate [culture] only w/ subjective states &lt;i&gt;and meaning w/subjective states&lt;/i&gt;.&quot;

The reduction of anthropology to labored translations of what we think we are hearing when the people whose lives we study speak to us in languages of which we mostly have only a feeble grasp has been a disaster, leading to what I have labeled &quot;ethnographic involution,&quot; a process analogous to that described by Clifford Geertz in his book &lt;i&gt;Agricultural Involution&#060;/&#062;.

In that book Geertz describes Javanese peasants investing more and more intense labor in smaller and smaller rice paddies as their population increases and becoming poorer in the process. Today we see cultural anthropologists investing more and more intense labor in smaller and smaller research whose results are of little or no interest to anyone who lacks a particular interest in the peoples whose cultures they study--and becoming poorer in the process.

When anthropology, in the classic American four-field sense, included archeology, physical anthropology and linguistics as well as social or cultural anthropology, it was common for anthropologists to work with data for which there were no living informants to tell us what it meant to them and, in the case of linguistics, to ask questions that no informant not trained as a linguist could answer for us. We were forced, then, to consider what our findings might imply in the broadest possible context, the natural history of humanity as a whole. The ideas we came up with were of interest to all sorts of people because they articulated unexpected aspects of our shared humanity from surprising points of view.

Today&#039;s cultural anthropology appears to be focused on translating what a handful of people have to say, when what they have to say is, perhaps our fault in the way we present it, largely composed of familiar cliches. Why should anyone who doesn&#039;t have a personal interest in the same handful of people who shared their lives with the ethnographer care what we say that they said to us?

Think about it.

NOTE: I can easily imagine readers who will be upset, unhappy, outraged that I dare to say such things. I may be going too far in making these claims. Fear not. I have a thick skin. I am old and have no academic career to pursue. I wil never serve on your hiring or tenure committee. I would be delighted to have them proved wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May I suggest an amendment: &#8220;We lose all that when we equate [culture] only w/ subjective states <i>and meaning w/subjective states</i>.&#8221;</p>
<p>The reduction of anthropology to labored translations of what we think we are hearing when the people whose lives we study speak to us in languages of which we mostly have only a feeble grasp has been a disaster, leading to what I have labeled &#8220;ethnographic involution,&#8221; a process analogous to that described by Clifford Geertz in his book <i>Agricultural Involution&lt;/&gt;.</p>
<p>In that book Geertz describes Javanese peasants investing more and more intense labor in smaller and smaller rice paddies as their population increases and becoming poorer in the process. Today we see cultural anthropologists investing more and more intense labor in smaller and smaller research whose results are of little or no interest to anyone who lacks a particular interest in the peoples whose cultures they study&#8211;and becoming poorer in the process.</p>
<p>When anthropology, in the classic American four-field sense, included archeology, physical anthropology and linguistics as well as social or cultural anthropology, it was common for anthropologists to work with data for which there were no living informants to tell us what it meant to them and, in the case of linguistics, to ask questions that no informant not trained as a linguist could answer for us. We were forced, then, to consider what our findings might imply in the broadest possible context, the natural history of humanity as a whole. The ideas we came up with were of interest to all sorts of people because they articulated unexpected aspects of our shared humanity from surprising points of view.</p>
<p>Today&#8217;s cultural anthropology appears to be focused on translating what a handful of people have to say, when what they have to say is, perhaps our fault in the way we present it, largely composed of familiar cliches. Why should anyone who doesn&#8217;t have a personal interest in the same handful of people who shared their lives with the ethnographer care what we say that they said to us?</p>
<p>Think about it.</p>
<p>NOTE: I can easily imagine readers who will be upset, unhappy, outraged that I dare to say such things. I may be going too far in making these claims. Fear not. I have a thick skin. I am old and have no academic career to pursue. I wil never serve on your hiring or tenure committee. I would be delighted to have them proved wrong.</i></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John hartigan</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837217</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John hartigan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2015 18:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I’m using ethnographic methods and I doing cultural analysis, so it’s definitely anthropology, which I take to be the science of culture, which, in turn, is not exclusive to humans (see my post, “nonhuman cultures”). We’ve drawn too narrow a view of anthropology, considering it only to be about “Man”—that limited version has been critiqued for some time now. “Culture” is metaphorically extended to humans roughly 500 years ago. Much prior to that, “cultivation” was developed as a means to talk about the multispecies relations entailed with plants like maize; we lose all that when we equate it only w/ subjective states/meaning. So in studying the cultivation of maize, I’m very much doing an anthropological project. What we bring to such accounts that differ from those of natural scientists will have to be the subject of another post. But as far as botanists, yes, I’m going that too, in Spain.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m using ethnographic methods and I doing cultural analysis, so it’s definitely anthropology, which I take to be the science of culture, which, in turn, is not exclusive to humans (see my post, “nonhuman cultures”). We’ve drawn too narrow a view of anthropology, considering it only to be about “Man”—that limited version has been critiqued for some time now. “Culture” is metaphorically extended to humans roughly 500 years ago. Much prior to that, “cultivation” was developed as a means to talk about the multispecies relations entailed with plants like maize; we lose all that when we equate it only w/ subjective states/meaning. So in studying the cultivation of maize, I’m very much doing an anthropological project. What we bring to such accounts that differ from those of natural scientists will have to be the subject of another post. But as far as botanists, yes, I’m going that too, in Spain.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TNT</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837216</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TNT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2015 13:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me get this straight: Anthropology is the science of humanity. One of the discipline&#039;s methods is ethnography.  You are applying this method to study corn.

You are less interested in studying plant geneticists than you are in a plant. This is fine. There are many people who study plants.

From what I gathered then is it safe to conclude that what you are doing is not anthropology?  You might be best suited to directly engage with botanists because they dedicate themselves to studying plants.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me get this straight: Anthropology is the science of humanity. One of the discipline&#8217;s methods is ethnography.  You are applying this method to study corn.</p>
<p>You are less interested in studying plant geneticists than you are in a plant. This is fine. There are many people who study plants.</p>
<p>From what I gathered then is it safe to conclude that what you are doing is not anthropology?  You might be best suited to directly engage with botanists because they dedicate themselves to studying plants.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John hartigan</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837215</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John hartigan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2015 11:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837215</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I actually did an ethnography of maize. Sure, it’s a massive species (genomically &#038; agriculturally), but the same conceit holds with ethnography on humans: that you can take a place-based sample of a species and have it be representative. For that matter, maize is an excellent cipher for place-based dynamics, as many plants are. It started out as an ethnography of plant geneticists, but then I realized I was more interested in what’s happening w/ the species rather than what’s going on  in the heads of the scientists. And I disagree: thinking subjects aren’t requisite for ethnography. We’ve over-valorized internal subjective spaces as the target point for cultural analysis. There’s more to culture than what’s going on in peoples’ minds. The last chapter of this ethnography—which should be finished by the end of the year—is “How to Interview a Plant” and details the steps involved in engaging such nonhumans as ethnographic subjects. Here’s a preview: http://www.multispecies-salon.org/how-to-interview-a-plant/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I actually did an ethnography of maize. Sure, it’s a massive species (genomically &amp; agriculturally), but the same conceit holds with ethnography on humans: that you can take a place-based sample of a species and have it be representative. For that matter, maize is an excellent cipher for place-based dynamics, as many plants are. It started out as an ethnography of plant geneticists, but then I realized I was more interested in what’s happening w/ the species rather than what’s going on  in the heads of the scientists. And I disagree: thinking subjects aren’t requisite for ethnography. We’ve over-valorized internal subjective spaces as the target point for cultural analysis. There’s more to culture than what’s going on in peoples’ minds. The last chapter of this ethnography—which should be finished by the end of the year—is “How to Interview a Plant” and details the steps involved in engaging such nonhumans as ethnographic subjects. Here’s a preview: <a href="http://www.multispecies-salon.org/how-to-interview-a-plant/" rel="nofollow">http://www.multispecies-salon.org/how-to-interview-a-plant/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A. J. West (@AlWest13)</title>
		<link>/2015/04/07/domestication-now/comment-page-1/#comment-837212</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A. J. West (@AlWest13)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2015 08:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16646#comment-837212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Perhaps because many things which once seemed self-evident no longer seem obvious. Once seemingly clear distinctions like mind vs body turn out to have a thousand shades of grey.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When did mind/body seem like a clear distinction? Surely a long time ago - before Phineas Gage and his railroad spike. It&#039;s more or less obvious now that the &#039;mind&#039; must at the very least supervene on the body, that there is no &#039;mind&#039; independent of the body.

Claiming that consciousness is an amorphous force of the universe and that even dust motes are conscious - &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; would be an absurdity of a similar kind to the claims of Pollan et al. The fact that plants don&#039;t develop long term strategies for interacting with humans is self-evident, and that&#039;s not because we&#039;re all blinkered. It&#039;s self-evident because there&#039;s no reason to think that it&#039;s wrong.

Maize can&#039;t think. You can&#039;t do an ethnography of maize. The only mechanism I can see that would allow for this is the same mechanism that operates widely in continental thought and the social sciences: the emperor&#039;s new clothes. No one wants to look stupid or lacking in insight, everyone wants to get ahead at court.

And just as no one in Andersen&#039;s story (there are older versions, btw) argued with the little boy about whether or not the clothes were real, so no continental theory enthusiast will argue about this stuff, not really. There&#039;s never any push back. Just retreat, safe in the knowledge that few &lt;i&gt;in the academy&lt;/i&gt; will want to argue about it.

Anyway, I&#039;m not trying to maintain an absolute distinction between humans and other non-human organisms - tool use, language, etc, are not unique to humans. But that doesn&#039;t mean that plants can think or that because something is alive it has some kind of agency equivalent to that of a human. At the very least, humans have much more highly developed versions of traits found in other species, and human selective modification of plants and animals is different to dugongs grazing on sea grass. Cultivation isn&#039;t the same as domestication.

Moreover, domestication almost never happens to only one species in a human context. It&#039;s something humans can think about, process, analogise - and suddenly they start domesticating more than one plant or animal. It&#039;s not haphazard. It&#039;s humans doing stuff to plants, and generally humans doing stuff to animals too. Plants aren&#039;t the ones with the strategies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Perhaps because many things which once seemed self-evident no longer seem obvious. Once seemingly clear distinctions like mind vs body turn out to have a thousand shades of grey.</p></blockquote>
<p>When did mind/body seem like a clear distinction? Surely a long time ago &#8211; before Phineas Gage and his railroad spike. It&#8217;s more or less obvious now that the &#8216;mind&#8217; must at the very least supervene on the body, that there is no &#8216;mind&#8217; independent of the body.</p>
<p>Claiming that consciousness is an amorphous force of the universe and that even dust motes are conscious &#8211; <i>that</i> would be an absurdity of a similar kind to the claims of Pollan et al. The fact that plants don&#8217;t develop long term strategies for interacting with humans is self-evident, and that&#8217;s not because we&#8217;re all blinkered. It&#8217;s self-evident because there&#8217;s no reason to think that it&#8217;s wrong.</p>
<p>Maize can&#8217;t think. You can&#8217;t do an ethnography of maize. The only mechanism I can see that would allow for this is the same mechanism that operates widely in continental thought and the social sciences: the emperor&#8217;s new clothes. No one wants to look stupid or lacking in insight, everyone wants to get ahead at court.</p>
<p>And just as no one in Andersen&#8217;s story (there are older versions, btw) argued with the little boy about whether or not the clothes were real, so no continental theory enthusiast will argue about this stuff, not really. There&#8217;s never any push back. Just retreat, safe in the knowledge that few <i>in the academy</i> will want to argue about it.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m not trying to maintain an absolute distinction between humans and other non-human organisms &#8211; tool use, language, etc, are not unique to humans. But that doesn&#8217;t mean that plants can think or that because something is alive it has some kind of agency equivalent to that of a human. At the very least, humans have much more highly developed versions of traits found in other species, and human selective modification of plants and animals is different to dugongs grazing on sea grass. Cultivation isn&#8217;t the same as domestication.</p>
<p>Moreover, domestication almost never happens to only one species in a human context. It&#8217;s something humans can think about, process, analogise &#8211; and suddenly they start domesticating more than one plant or animal. It&#8217;s not haphazard. It&#8217;s humans doing stuff to plants, and generally humans doing stuff to animals too. Plants aren&#8217;t the ones with the strategies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
