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	<title>Comments on: What’s behind YouTube and Mechanical Turk?</title>
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	<description>Notes and Queries in Anthropology</description>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>/2010/12/01/whats-behind-youtube-and-mechanical-turk/comment-page-1/#comment-703338</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Craig]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4573#comment-703338</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That camera drives me crazy.  But it&#039;s amazing that Sassen can put up with it and continue to talk coherently.  That&#039;s an art!  

Sure its a risky maneuver to shoot like that, but anyone can be risky.  I think it was a mistake.  Better to have experimented in a test shot.  The drama of the camera takes away from what is being said, I don&#039;t see how it adds to it.  

I was much more interested in the montage at the beginning and think that that was enough.  This reminded me of watching those old Stuart Hall lectures with the crazy &#039;cool&#039; backgrounds of the early 1990s.

Either way it was a pleasure to listen and good to hear more about digital labour.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That camera drives me crazy.  But it&#8217;s amazing that Sassen can put up with it and continue to talk coherently.  That&#8217;s an art!  </p>
<p>Sure its a risky maneuver to shoot like that, but anyone can be risky.  I think it was a mistake.  Better to have experimented in a test shot.  The drama of the camera takes away from what is being said, I don&#8217;t see how it adds to it.  </p>
<p>I was much more interested in the montage at the beginning and think that that was enough.  This reminded me of watching those old Stuart Hall lectures with the crazy &#8216;cool&#8217; backgrounds of the early 1990s.</p>
<p>Either way it was a pleasure to listen and good to hear more about digital labour.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>/2010/12/01/whats-behind-youtube-and-mechanical-turk/comment-page-1/#comment-703238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 23:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4573#comment-703238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As someone who works for a company that use Mechanical Turk, I wanted to weigh in on whether mTurk can be considered as &quot;exploitative.&quot; You&#039;re right, the pay isn&#039;t great -- although Amazon won&#039;t release detailed data on the subject, we can be fairly certain that the average worker is probably earning about $1-$2/hour. 

The reasons why market rates are so low, however, are complicated. Indeed, there are more tasks available on the service than workers ready to do them -- so if anything, its a market that is tilted toward labor. What seems to be the problem is that mTurk&#039;s reputational infrastructure doesn&#039;t allow workers to distinguish themselves in any meaningful way. How much would you pay a worker who hasn&#039;t been vetted, interviewed, and may have no previous experience in the subject? the answer: not very much, and while many companies (like mine) tries to pay good workers more, Amazon does not make this easy. This is a classic market for lemons, where high quality products (e.g. workers willing to do great work for you) are indistinguishable for low quality products (e.g. workers who give you answers quickly, but are usually incorrect).

Its worth nothing that most workers are only doing 100 or so tasks in a given week, for a grand total of 4-5 hours of total work a week. From what we can tell, very few people are using mTurk as a primary source of income, but are instead using it as a way to supplement their income, spend free time, or even use it out of boredom. The prototypical mTurk worker is either a) an American middle-aged woman who uses the service in her free time or b) a young indian man who uses it to supplement his income. Neither group is making more than $10-$20/week on the service, and about 70% of both groups report being employed elsewhere. 

For more, I suggest you check NYU professor Panos Ipeirotis&#039; blog on the subject: http://behind-the-enemy-lines.blogspot.com/ . 

Oh, and sorry for the anonymous post -- I would post under my name, but I currently work at a company that uses mTurk. obviously my opinions are my own, and not my employer&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who works for a company that use Mechanical Turk, I wanted to weigh in on whether mTurk can be considered as &#8220;exploitative.&#8221; You&#8217;re right, the pay isn&#8217;t great &#8212; although Amazon won&#8217;t release detailed data on the subject, we can be fairly certain that the average worker is probably earning about $1-$2/hour. </p>
<p>The reasons why market rates are so low, however, are complicated. Indeed, there are more tasks available on the service than workers ready to do them &#8212; so if anything, its a market that is tilted toward labor. What seems to be the problem is that mTurk&#8217;s reputational infrastructure doesn&#8217;t allow workers to distinguish themselves in any meaningful way. How much would you pay a worker who hasn&#8217;t been vetted, interviewed, and may have no previous experience in the subject? the answer: not very much, and while many companies (like mine) tries to pay good workers more, Amazon does not make this easy. This is a classic market for lemons, where high quality products (e.g. workers willing to do great work for you) are indistinguishable for low quality products (e.g. workers who give you answers quickly, but are usually incorrect).</p>
<p>Its worth nothing that most workers are only doing 100 or so tasks in a given week, for a grand total of 4-5 hours of total work a week. From what we can tell, very few people are using mTurk as a primary source of income, but are instead using it as a way to supplement their income, spend free time, or even use it out of boredom. The prototypical mTurk worker is either a) an American middle-aged woman who uses the service in her free time or b) a young indian man who uses it to supplement his income. Neither group is making more than $10-$20/week on the service, and about 70% of both groups report being employed elsewhere. </p>
<p>For more, I suggest you check NYU professor Panos Ipeirotis&#8217; blog on the subject: <a href="http://behind-the-enemy-lines.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://behind-the-enemy-lines.blogspot.com/</a> . </p>
<p>Oh, and sorry for the anonymous post &#8212; I would post under my name, but I currently work at a company that uses mTurk. obviously my opinions are my own, and not my employer&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Galley</title>
		<link>/2010/12/01/whats-behind-youtube-and-mechanical-turk/comment-page-1/#comment-703163</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Galley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 03:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4573#comment-703163</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, provisionally -- does it? I like open-ended arguments as much as the next anthropologist, but I feel like I need a little more to go on here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, provisionally &#8212; does it? I like open-ended arguments as much as the next anthropologist, but I feel like I need a little more to go on here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Adam Fish</title>
		<link>/2010/12/01/whats-behind-youtube-and-mechanical-turk/comment-page-1/#comment-703162</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Fish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 02:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4573#comment-703162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Andrew Both good points. The question we are posing is not whether firm-based sociality is good for society. There are stacks of tech-pop best sellers for that (Shirky, Howe, Jenkins, Benkler et al). We love and use their tools rabidly and, here is your balance, conceptualize them digital social enterprises. We are worried, as is Sassen in the video, that the logic of the financier trumps the engineer and the civil activist in access, monetizing, and populating these socio-technical tools.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Andrew Both good points. The question we are posing is not whether firm-based sociality is good for society. There are stacks of tech-pop best sellers for that (Shirky, Howe, Jenkins, Benkler et al). We love and use their tools rabidly and, here is your balance, conceptualize them digital social enterprises. We are worried, as is Sassen in the video, that the logic of the financier trumps the engineer and the civil activist in access, monetizing, and populating these socio-technical tools.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Adam Fish</title>
		<link>/2010/12/01/whats-behind-youtube-and-mechanical-turk/comment-page-1/#comment-703161</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Fish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 02:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4573#comment-703161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Its one hell of a technique, this camera work. I mean, how do you learn to do it? When do you tell yourself as a cinematographer to wander a bit there in that direction, lean in this direction now. Thos are all micro-camera movements--inches. Its very ambulatory and breaks with all formal training but gives it an ambiance that isn&#039;t dissimilar to the music, her mannerisms, the informality of the operation. And its a risky maneuver, to shoot a single camera shot and meander like that. For these reasons, I commend it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its one hell of a technique, this camera work. I mean, how do you learn to do it? When do you tell yourself as a cinematographer to wander a bit there in that direction, lean in this direction now. Thos are all micro-camera movements&#8211;inches. Its very ambulatory and breaks with all formal training but gives it an ambiance that isn&#8217;t dissimilar to the music, her mannerisms, the informality of the operation. And its a risky maneuver, to shoot a single camera shot and meander like that. For these reasons, I commend it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Galley</title>
		<link>/2010/12/01/whats-behind-youtube-and-mechanical-turk/comment-page-1/#comment-703160</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Galley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 02:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4573#comment-703160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[haha, oh god, the burning.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>haha, oh god, the burning.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: qqii</title>
		<link>/2010/12/01/whats-behind-youtube-and-mechanical-turk/comment-page-1/#comment-703159</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[qqii]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 01:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4573#comment-703159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re supposed to feel like internet research is like MTV: new and trendy 20 years ago.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re supposed to feel like internet research is like MTV: new and trendy 20 years ago.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MB</title>
		<link>/2010/12/01/whats-behind-youtube-and-mechanical-turk/comment-page-1/#comment-703158</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 00:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4573#comment-703158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I liked the interview, but why the camerawork? Am I supposed to feel like I am high?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I liked the interview, but why the camerawork? Am I supposed to feel like I am high?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marissa</title>
		<link>/2010/12/01/whats-behind-youtube-and-mechanical-turk/comment-page-1/#comment-703157</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marissa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 00:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4573#comment-703157</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[what are they trying to manipulate with that crazy camera movement?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what are they trying to manipulate with that crazy camera movement?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Andrew Galley</title>
		<link>/2010/12/01/whats-behind-youtube-and-mechanical-turk/comment-page-1/#comment-703139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Galley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4573#comment-703139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How do we assess the value I gain from accessing Google and Youtube? Serious question. I feel that both have added hugely to my ability to access useful information in a timely manner. That may be an illusion. How would we go about testing this balance?

As for the mechanical turk, my suspicion based on the (unbidden) testimony I&#039;ve heard is that it&#039;s more or less only as exploitative as the underlying economic conditions allow. The job market is shitty, it&#039;s harder and takes longer to find work --mTurk lets you continue contributing a few bucks to the household income while you&#039;re on a dry streak. So that&#039;s /exploitative/ in a sense, but unless mTurk is responsible in some way for there being no jobs, I&#039;m not certain the friends I know who&#039;ve used it would be better off without it. On the other hand, mTurk obviously wouldn&#039;t have as large a pool of labour to draw on if there were real jobs for people.

So, it&#039;s about as exploitative as dollar stores, probably. :) A symptom, not a disease.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do we assess the value I gain from accessing Google and Youtube? Serious question. I feel that both have added hugely to my ability to access useful information in a timely manner. That may be an illusion. How would we go about testing this balance?</p>
<p>As for the mechanical turk, my suspicion based on the (unbidden) testimony I&#8217;ve heard is that it&#8217;s more or less only as exploitative as the underlying economic conditions allow. The job market is shitty, it&#8217;s harder and takes longer to find work &#8211;mTurk lets you continue contributing a few bucks to the household income while you&#8217;re on a dry streak. So that&#8217;s /exploitative/ in a sense, but unless mTurk is responsible in some way for there being no jobs, I&#8217;m not certain the friends I know who&#8217;ve used it would be better off without it. On the other hand, mTurk obviously wouldn&#8217;t have as large a pool of labour to draw on if there were real jobs for people.</p>
<p>So, it&#8217;s about as exploitative as dollar stores, probably. 🙂 A symptom, not a disease.</p>
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