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	<title>Comments on: Alexander Goldenweiser on intellectual property</title>
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	<link>/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/</link>
	<description>Notes and Queries in Anthropology</description>
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		<title>By: maniaku</title>
		<link>/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/comment-page-1/#comment-14253</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maniaku]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/#comment-14253</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not that familiar with him, but my take...

I guess it depends on how you interpret the last few sentences. If we take for granted that the &#039;primitive&#039; people do not draw a distinction &quot;between things which exist as substance and others that are mere acts or ideas&quot; (whether that is true or not is another question), then they can be constrated to so-called &#039;civilized&#039; societies. Even now, with &quot;intellectual property&quot; becoming a common term (interesting to note it does not appear as a phrase in the quote AT ALL), there is still debate about whether you can own ideas/music/etc and what that means. So, its not unreasonable to see how the example could be used as a contrast--especially since a Boasian (badly caricaturing) would be interested in cross-cultural difference rather than anything suggesting a &quot;universal&quot;.

As far as the &#039;primitive&#039;... kind of makes you cringe now, but that is really anachronistic i think. It was just how anthropology was written at the time. Now people would probably write &quot;traditional societies&quot; and nobody would blink.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not that familiar with him, but my take&#8230;</p>
<p>I guess it depends on how you interpret the last few sentences. If we take for granted that the &#8216;primitive&#8217; people do not draw a distinction &#8220;between things which exist as substance and others that are mere acts or ideas&#8221; (whether that is true or not is another question), then they can be constrated to so-called &#8216;civilized&#8217; societies. Even now, with &#8220;intellectual property&#8221; becoming a common term (interesting to note it does not appear as a phrase in the quote AT ALL), there is still debate about whether you can own ideas/music/etc and what that means. So, its not unreasonable to see how the example could be used as a contrast&#8211;especially since a Boasian (badly caricaturing) would be interested in cross-cultural difference rather than anything suggesting a &#8220;universal&#8221;.</p>
<p>As far as the &#8216;primitive&#8217;&#8230; kind of makes you cringe now, but that is really anachronistic i think. It was just how anthropology was written at the time. Now people would probably write &#8220;traditional societies&#8221; and nobody would blink.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/comment-page-1/#comment-14219</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/#comment-14219</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m very interested in The Knowledge Executive -- thanks for the reccomendation.

I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s so easy to write off Goldenweiser&#039;s amazement as ignorance, though. He was a serious musician himself and I&#039;m sure he&#039;d have run into the various royalty schemes that arose in the publication business with the rise of (among other things) player pianos. Additionally, he was author, so copyright wouldn&#039;t have been unknown to him. And also this was written during and after the movie industry&#039;s migration to California for IP reasons (among others). 

Just because something is a good does not mean it is necessarily a rivalrous good. A song is still a thing even if anyone can learn it. Nonrivalrous goods raise interesting questions -- especially our ability to MAKE them rivalrous even when the means of distribution (hearing) don&#039;t entail it. But the thingness of a thing and its ability to be shared are two different subjects. Or so I think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m very interested in The Knowledge Executive &#8212; thanks for the reccomendation.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s so easy to write off Goldenweiser&#8217;s amazement as ignorance, though. He was a serious musician himself and I&#8217;m sure he&#8217;d have run into the various royalty schemes that arose in the publication business with the rise of (among other things) player pianos. Additionally, he was author, so copyright wouldn&#8217;t have been unknown to him. And also this was written during and after the movie industry&#8217;s migration to California for IP reasons (among others). </p>
<p>Just because something is a good does not mean it is necessarily a rivalrous good. A song is still a thing even if anyone can learn it. Nonrivalrous goods raise interesting questions &#8212; especially our ability to MAKE them rivalrous even when the means of distribution (hearing) don&#8217;t entail it. But the thingness of a thing and its ability to be shared are two different subjects. Or so I think.</p>
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		<title>By: John McCreery</title>
		<link>/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/comment-page-1/#comment-14126</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John McCreery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/#comment-14126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A prototype theory explanation might be more apropro. When Goldenweiser was writing the prototype of property, even in that anglophone legal tradition, was still real estate and its most immediate extension gold or heavy machinery. The movies were still new and still confined to celluloid film and theaters. TV was still a pipe dream and the Internet unimagined. The explosion of interest in intellectual property law in the last couple of decades that makes Goldenweiser&#039;s amazement that intangibles like songs and stories could be treated as property sound so out of it--that was still a long way in the future. 

Do you know by the way the now out of print classic &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0525484345/104-3644473-2136765?v=glance&#038;n=283155&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Knowledge Executive&lt;/a&gt; by Harlan Cleveland? It was this wonderful little book that first alerted me to the impending collision between traditional property law--a law of &quot;things&quot;--and ownership issues raised by exchanges of information. 

The problem is that a thing is something such that if I give it to you, I no longer have it. A bit of information is something such that if I give it to you, then we both have it. The ramifications are endless.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A prototype theory explanation might be more apropro. When Goldenweiser was writing the prototype of property, even in that anglophone legal tradition, was still real estate and its most immediate extension gold or heavy machinery. The movies were still new and still confined to celluloid film and theaters. TV was still a pipe dream and the Internet unimagined. The explosion of interest in intellectual property law in the last couple of decades that makes Goldenweiser&#8217;s amazement that intangibles like songs and stories could be treated as property sound so out of it&#8211;that was still a long way in the future. </p>
<p>Do you know by the way the now out of print classic <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0525484345/104-3644473-2136765?v=glance&amp;n=283155" rel="nofollow">The Knowledge Executive</a> by Harlan Cleveland? It was this wonderful little book that first alerted me to the impending collision between traditional property law&#8211;a law of &#8220;things&#8221;&#8211;and ownership issues raised by exchanges of information. </p>
<p>The problem is that a thing is something such that if I give it to you, I no longer have it. A bit of information is something such that if I give it to you, then we both have it. The ramifications are endless.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/comment-page-1/#comment-14096</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/#comment-14096</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well I think the distinction between &#039;primitive&#039; people and &#039;civilized&#039; people and its implications is morally disgusting. That said, Goldenweiser really was one of the most outre of the Boasians -- which is saying something! When I was at Reed there were still stories about him and it had been 60 years since he had taught there! That textbook also includes a section called &quot;the white man&#039;s burden&quot; which is about the crippling effects of colonialism on the colonized, which is unusually vocal, even for Boasians.

What I find amazing, analytically, is that in the quote Goldenweiser manages to somehow use the example of intellectual property existing in both &#039;civilized&#039; and &#039;primitive&#039; societies as a way of differentiating the two, rather than seeing them as similar. I think maybe this is partially the result of Goldenweiser&#039;s ignorance of the long history of intellectual property laws in the anglophone tradition, which was about 220 years old when he was writing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I think the distinction between &#8216;primitive&#8217; people and &#8216;civilized&#8217; people and its implications is morally disgusting. That said, Goldenweiser really was one of the most outre of the Boasians &#8212; which is saying something! When I was at Reed there were still stories about him and it had been 60 years since he had taught there! That textbook also includes a section called &#8220;the white man&#8217;s burden&#8221; which is about the crippling effects of colonialism on the colonized, which is unusually vocal, even for Boasians.</p>
<p>What I find amazing, analytically, is that in the quote Goldenweiser manages to somehow use the example of intellectual property existing in both &#8216;civilized&#8217; and &#8216;primitive&#8217; societies as a way of differentiating the two, rather than seeing them as similar. I think maybe this is partially the result of Goldenweiser&#8217;s ignorance of the long history of intellectual property laws in the anglophone tradition, which was about 220 years old when he was writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Nadya English</title>
		<link>/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/comment-page-1/#comment-13902</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nadya English]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 04:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2006/07/10/alexander-goldenweiser-on-intellectual-property/#comment-13902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You will have to pardon my ignorance of your field (I am an engineering student), but I was curious as to your take on the Goldenweiser quote? He was my great-grandfather, and I have recently been discovering his writings... what are your thoughts on this excerpt, especially in the context of Boas and the rights of &quot;primatives&quot; to their cultures?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You will have to pardon my ignorance of your field (I am an engineering student), but I was curious as to your take on the Goldenweiser quote? He was my great-grandfather, and I have recently been discovering his writings&#8230; what are your thoughts on this excerpt, especially in the context of Boas and the rights of &#8220;primatives&#8221; to their cultures?</p>
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