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	<title>Comments on: Meditations on The Brothers Grimm</title>
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	<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/</link>
	<description>Notes and Queries in Anthropology</description>
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		<title>By: ahmed</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-706629</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ahmed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-706629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ur article was good very informitive but wat i dont get is the fairy tales in the movie r they real i always thought of legends and fairy tales to have some real base in life]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ur article was good very informitive but wat i dont get is the fairy tales in the movie r they real i always thought of legends and fairy tales to have some real base in life</p>
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		<title>By: BAdMonkEy</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1643</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BAdMonkEy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jesse says: 

Well, you can make a distinction between racialist and racist thinking, though I happen to think that racialists haven’t thought things through entirely, otherwise they’d drop race-thinking posthaste.&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;
====================

Ok, so the term &quot;African-American&quot; and &quot;Hispanic&quot; etc.. is racist/racialist thinking? That is EXACTLY what John Wayne said. The problem with your argument is that these groups define themselves as &quot;identity groups&quot;, as do Muslims. Because these groups do not seem to share your viewpoint that they dont exist or should NOT exist, it would bring into question why do &#039;blacks&#039;largely refer to people of African decent as African-American, and not just American. 

Which would also bring up the point that it is people of African decent (and Latino, Asian etc..) who have choosen a seperate &#039;racialist&#039; identity group, IE: that they are not of &quot;European&quot; ancestory... or do not/will not/can not in large statistical numbers identify with being the &quot;same&quot; as people of european ancestory, or blacks with  hispanic, orhispanics with asian, etc... ancestory, on average. That is why they have defined racialist groupings. So even though you choose to be &quot;politicaly correct&quot; in choosing to ignore &#039;racialist&#039; tendancies, the very nature of Diversity promotes these same racial identies within the lager social structure of Western Euopean decendent clutures...does it not?

One could argue that it is therefore inherently &quot;racist&quot; to ingnore &quot;race&quot; as it subverts the notion of &quot;diversity&quot;. Could you not?  Im asking you of course....

Thanks   =8 )]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesse says: </p>
<p>Well, you can make a distinction between racialist and racist thinking, though I happen to think that racialists haven’t thought things through entirely, otherwise they’d drop race-thinking posthaste.&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;<br />
====================</p>
<p>Ok, so the term &#8220;African-American&#8221; and &#8220;Hispanic&#8221; etc.. is racist/racialist thinking? That is EXACTLY what John Wayne said. The problem with your argument is that these groups define themselves as &#8220;identity groups&#8221;, as do Muslims. Because these groups do not seem to share your viewpoint that they dont exist or should NOT exist, it would bring into question why do &#8216;blacks&#8217;largely refer to people of African decent as African-American, and not just American. </p>
<p>Which would also bring up the point that it is people of African decent (and Latino, Asian etc..) who have choosen a seperate &#8216;racialist&#8217; identity group, IE: that they are not of &#8220;European&#8221; ancestory&#8230; or do not/will not/can not in large statistical numbers identify with being the &#8220;same&#8221; as people of european ancestory, or blacks with  hispanic, orhispanics with asian, etc&#8230; ancestory, on average. That is why they have defined racialist groupings. So even though you choose to be &#8220;politicaly correct&#8221; in choosing to ignore &#8216;racialist&#8217; tendancies, the very nature of Diversity promotes these same racial identies within the lager social structure of Western Euopean decendent clutures&#8230;does it not?</p>
<p>One could argue that it is therefore inherently &#8220;racist&#8221; to ingnore &#8220;race&#8221; as it subverts the notion of &#8220;diversity&#8221;. Could you not?  Im asking you of course&#8230;.</p>
<p>Thanks   =8 )</p>
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		<title>By: BAdMonkEy</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BAdMonkEy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lol-That is a dictionary, it is not a SCIENTIFIC statement.
What is the scientific definition of &quot;racism&quot;. Is classsifiying people into seperate ethnic groups racist? Then Darwin was racist. Than the Bell Curve is racist. Then Jesse Jackson is racist, then Clinton is racist...

If the Bell Curve is a racist book, but has a scientific basis to it, then discussing racist concepts would be purely accademic, would it not?

How about discussing the differences between Males and Females again that would be &quot;sexist&quot; because your studing the differences between the sexes.... 

Political Correctness is not scientific. 

I think this is the first time Ive actually seen someone use a Dictionary soely to define what appears to be a political viewpoint...It looks like you are forcing a political argument to shut down any opposition to your belief system about race perceptions. Hence my reference to George Orwell.

Dictionary aside, that &#039;definition&#039; of race is a limitation of thought within a group of people with a particular political, as there are a ton of books on Anthroplogy that dissuss race as in defining racial characteristics. All you are doing is not allowing disscussion of them. The supreme court just made a ruling that racial discrimination was allowed under certain circumstances, so I would think at the least, the definition of race and racism is fluid...

The concept that humans dont differentiate among ethnicity is absurd. Your making a blanket political statement to suit your very narrow worldview, as Muslim Immigration is becomming a HOT topic in Italy, France, Briton, and of course, scandinavia and the Netherlands. 

So are you only allowing people who have a liberal viewpoint to share, and conform to Political Correctness to comment on your message board? That sounds more like pre-school, not the real world, to me...

Thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol-That is a dictionary, it is not a SCIENTIFIC statement.<br />
What is the scientific definition of &#8220;racism&#8221;. Is classsifiying people into seperate ethnic groups racist? Then Darwin was racist. Than the Bell Curve is racist. Then Jesse Jackson is racist, then Clinton is racist&#8230;</p>
<p>If the Bell Curve is a racist book, but has a scientific basis to it, then discussing racist concepts would be purely accademic, would it not?</p>
<p>How about discussing the differences between Males and Females again that would be &#8220;sexist&#8221; because your studing the differences between the sexes&#8230;. </p>
<p>Political Correctness is not scientific. </p>
<p>I think this is the first time Ive actually seen someone use a Dictionary soely to define what appears to be a political viewpoint&#8230;It looks like you are forcing a political argument to shut down any opposition to your belief system about race perceptions. Hence my reference to George Orwell.</p>
<p>Dictionary aside, that &#8216;definition&#8217; of race is a limitation of thought within a group of people with a particular political, as there are a ton of books on Anthroplogy that dissuss race as in defining racial characteristics. All you are doing is not allowing disscussion of them. The supreme court just made a ruling that racial discrimination was allowed under certain circumstances, so I would think at the least, the definition of race and racism is fluid&#8230;</p>
<p>The concept that humans dont differentiate among ethnicity is absurd. Your making a blanket political statement to suit your very narrow worldview, as Muslim Immigration is becomming a HOT topic in Italy, France, Briton, and of course, scandinavia and the Netherlands. </p>
<p>So are you only allowing people who have a liberal viewpoint to share, and conform to Political Correctness to comment on your message board? That sounds more like pre-school, not the real world, to me&#8230;</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1640</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, you can make a distinction between racialist and racist thinking, though I happen to think that racialists haven&#039;t thought things through entirely, otherwise they&#039;d drop race-thinking posthaste.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you can make a distinction between racialist and racist thinking, though I happen to think that racialists haven&#8217;t thought things through entirely, otherwise they&#8217;d drop race-thinking posthaste.</p>
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		<title>By: orange.</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1637</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[orange.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1637</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[Excuse me, Kerim, but isn`t that Oxford Dictionary that you re quoting contributing to racism itself? As it does not question the basis, the categorial thinking, but judges a valuation that is based on it. Like &quot;race&quot; was ok, but &quot;racist&quot; was not.]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Excuse me, Kerim, but isn`t that Oxford Dictionary that you re quoting contributing to racism itself? As it does not question the basis, the categorial thinking, but judges a valuation that is based on it. Like &#8220;race&#8221; was ok, but &#8220;racist&#8221; was not.]</p>
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		<title>By: Kerim</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1631</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kerim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2005 22:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1631</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Oxford Dictionary defines racism as:

&quot;The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.&quot;

Your post expressed exactly such beliefs, and we will not tolerate them on this blog. This blog encourages lively discussion, but we reseve the right to set limits on what speech we consider appropriate as per our comments policy. If you feel the need to express ideas not welcome on this blog you are free to start your own blog - doing so is free.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Oxford Dictionary defines racism as:</p>
<p>&#8220;The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your post expressed exactly such beliefs, and we will not tolerate them on this blog. This blog encourages lively discussion, but we reseve the right to set limits on what speech we consider appropriate as per our comments policy. If you feel the need to express ideas not welcome on this blog you are free to start your own blog &#8211; doing so is free.</p>
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		<title>By: BAdMonkEy</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1630</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BAdMonkEy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2005 22:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That is your personal opinion.There is not definitive definition of &#039;racism&#039;. The Constitution could be called a &#039;racist&#039; document.  Should we now monitor public univeristies, and the professors who teach in them, for mind control, and blatent political bias? After all, if Universities are getting public funding, shouldnt they be held to a higher standard? You are making a political statement akin to saying: &quot;You cant say anything against Republicans...&quot; or any other group, which is absurd...

What exactly is the scientific standard for determining &#039;racism&#039;? Alot of people would like to know...=)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is your personal opinion.There is not definitive definition of &#8216;racism&#8217;. The Constitution could be called a &#8216;racist&#8217; document.  Should we now monitor public univeristies, and the professors who teach in them, for mind control, and blatent political bias? After all, if Universities are getting public funding, shouldnt they be held to a higher standard? You are making a political statement akin to saying: &#8220;You cant say anything against Republicans&#8230;&#8221; or any other group, which is absurd&#8230;</p>
<p>What exactly is the scientific standard for determining &#8216;racism&#8217;? Alot of people would like to know&#8230;=)</p>
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		<title>By: Kerim</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1629</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kerim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I deleted your last post because it was racist. If you continue to post hateful speech you will be banned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I deleted your last post because it was racist. If you continue to post hateful speech you will be banned.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: BAdMonkEy</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1628</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BAdMonkEy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hmmmmm, only &quot;pure&quot; thoughts allowed? Why did you delete my last post? Do you have the &quot;corner&quot; on thought? Then why dont you argue with my post, instead of acting like Gorge Orwell and the thought police...? Arent you college educated? Then lets see what you think you know! =) Dont be afraid of the truth, be afraid of people who are AFRAID of the truth!! 

Thanks....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmmm, only &#8220;pure&#8221; thoughts allowed? Why did you delete my last post? Do you have the &#8220;corner&#8221; on thought? Then why dont you argue with my post, instead of acting like Gorge Orwell and the thought police&#8230;? Arent you college educated? Then lets see what you think you know! =) Dont be afraid of the truth, be afraid of people who are AFRAID of the truth!! </p>
<p>Thanks&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: IshMEL</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1547</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IshMEL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1547</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0691114692/ref=nosim/ishbadiddle-20/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Hard Facts of the Grimm Fairy Tales&lt;/a&gt; contains some good analysis from Maria Tartar on the history and meaning of fairy tales, and what the Grimms were actually up to. Contains my favorite chapter title of recent memory, about female villains: &quot;From Nags to Witches.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0691114692/ref=nosim/ishbadiddle-20/" rel="nofollow">The Hard Facts of the Grimm Fairy Tales</a> contains some good analysis from Maria Tartar on the history and meaning of fairy tales, and what the Grimms were actually up to. Contains my favorite chapter title of recent memory, about female villains: &#8220;From Nags to Witches.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: oneman</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1545</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[oneman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1545</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ozma, that&#039;s interesting -- I don&#039;t know much about how the Grimms collected their tales, but I know that Perrault was part of a Parisian salon culture in which telling fairy tales was a kind of game, with moralizing a part of the storytelling.  It wuoldn&#039;t surprise me to find a similar tradition in Germany at about the same time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ozma, that&#8217;s interesting &#8212; I don&#8217;t know much about how the Grimms collected their tales, but I know that Perrault was part of a Parisian salon culture in which telling fairy tales was a kind of game, with moralizing a part of the storytelling.  It wuoldn&#8217;t surprise me to find a similar tradition in Germany at about the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Ozma</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1544</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ozma]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1544</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not to add more angles to what is already a fascinating post bristling with them, but when I was teaching at Warren Wilson College I had a student who had spent time as a research assistant to a scholar working on a feminist critique of the Brothers Grimm.  I can&#039;t actually remember what the critique was -- something perhaps about their having eliminated bourgeois female mediators in describing how they gathered their stories?  I think it was something like that -- their account of how they got their collection was that they had gone out and directly transcribed the tales from country villagers when in fact many of the stories had been collected by middle class female German folklorists who had (additionally) imbued them with moralizing purposes of their own.   Argghhh.  Now I can&#039;t remember.  Something like that anyway -- does any one know anything about this dimension of the Brothers Grimm story?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to add more angles to what is already a fascinating post bristling with them, but when I was teaching at Warren Wilson College I had a student who had spent time as a research assistant to a scholar working on a feminist critique of the Brothers Grimm.  I can&#8217;t actually remember what the critique was &#8212; something perhaps about their having eliminated bourgeois female mediators in describing how they gathered their stories?  I think it was something like that &#8212; their account of how they got their collection was that they had gone out and directly transcribed the tales from country villagers when in fact many of the stories had been collected by middle class female German folklorists who had (additionally) imbued them with moralizing purposes of their own.   Argghhh.  Now I can&#8217;t remember.  Something like that anyway &#8212; does any one know anything about this dimension of the Brothers Grimm story?</p>
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		<title>By: Kerim</title>
		<link>/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/comment-page-1/#comment-1543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kerim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/2005/09/13/meditations-on-the-brothers-grimm/#comment-1543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I recently saw this film, and felt that the fantasy part was well done, while the reality part was very poorly done - the French and Italian villians were very poorly written parts and I winced whenever they came on screen.

Anyone interested in the historical brother&#039;s Grimm, shoudl read about &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm&#039;s_Law&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Grimm&#039;s Law&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;the first non-trivial systematic sound change ever to be discovered&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would also trace the rise of the links between language and the German folk-nation back even earlier, to &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Gottfried_von_Herder&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Herder&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently saw this film, and felt that the fantasy part was well done, while the reality part was very poorly done &#8211; the French and Italian villians were very poorly written parts and I winced whenever they came on screen.</p>
<p>Anyone interested in the historical brother&#8217;s Grimm, shoudl read about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm's_Law" rel="nofollow">Grimm&#8217;s Law</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>the first non-trivial systematic sound change ever to be discovered</p></blockquote>
<p>I would also trace the rise of the links between language and the German folk-nation back even earlier, to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Gottfried_von_Herder" rel="nofollow">Herder</a>.</p>
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