Comments on: Emerging Capitalist Economy at Burning Man http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/ Notes and Queries in Anthropology — A Group Blog Sat, 26 May 2012 03:33:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Jo-zeff http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-690905 Jo-zeff Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:04:26 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-690905 Thanks all....This post and thread is something I've been looking for. As a three time burner living in the boonies way up in Canada, I still have many questions about BM...the obviously rich people I see...the incredibly well dressed poseurs who seem to make anyone who is not making a expensive fashion statement feel unwelcome.... I love Burning Man deeply, I've learned a lot from my time there. I want to be a part of it, I want to create, help, volunteer, bond. But I have definitely felt the presence of a B.M. 'elite' who do not want to let new people in. I feel them...feel like I'm being sized up and checked out. It's very strange, but I just want to be a part of it without pretense. It is a part of who I am. Am I just being paranoid, or is there a kind of 'pecking order' going on? I certainly feel it, and I don't think it's all in my head...... hmmmm.... Thanks all….This post and thread is something I’ve been looking for. As a three time burner living in the boonies way up in Canada, I still have many questions about BM…the obviously rich people I see…the incredibly well dressed poseurs who seem to make anyone who is not making a expensive fashion statement feel unwelcome….
I love Burning Man deeply, I’ve learned a lot from my time there. I want to be a part of it, I want to create, help, volunteer, bond. But I have definitely felt the presence of a B.M. ‘elite’ who do not want to let new people in. I feel them…feel like I’m being sized up and checked out. It’s very strange, but I just want to be a part of it without pretense. It is a part of who I am. Am I just being paranoid, or is there a kind of ‘pecking order’ going on? I certainly feel it, and I don’t think it’s all in my head……

hmmmm….

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]]> By: Brody http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-627959 Brody Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:57:06 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-627959 As much as it seems shocking and contrary to the principles of Burning Man, I think of it this way: those P2P people are still coming to Burning Man. They're making the choice to support art through the Burning Man Org/art grants (with a percentage of their ticket $), and who knows if they'll realize something Awesome while they are there? I've seen incredibly douchey weekenders suddenly Get It, and become a useful part of the community. (And then come back the next year as volunteers). I've seen people pull up to the Greeters gate pissed off, tired, and prepared to be unimpressed just sort of melt into a hug, relax and say "hey, people are nice here!" and you see their brains working as they reevaluate. I always tell these folks that "Burning Man is made of people. Individuals. Meet them. Hug them. Hang out with them. People are nicer here. Give it a shot." At least these people are trying it. They might never use Burning Man as anything but a private playground/rave, but what if even a few of them carry back home the 10 Principles and end up better people for it? As much as it seems shocking and contrary to the principles of Burning Man, I think of it this way: those P2P people are still coming to Burning Man. They’re making the choice to support art through the Burning Man Org/art grants (with a percentage of their ticket $), and who knows if they’ll realize something Awesome while they are there?

I’ve seen incredibly douchey weekenders suddenly Get It, and become a useful part of the community. (And then come back the next year as volunteers). I’ve seen people pull up to the Greeters gate pissed off, tired, and prepared to be unimpressed just sort of melt into a hug, relax and say “hey, people are nice here!” and you see their brains working as they reevaluate. I always tell these folks that “Burning Man is made of people. Individuals. Meet them. Hug them. Hang out with them. People are nicer here. Give it a shot.”

At least these people are trying it. They might never use Burning Man as anything but a private playground/rave, but what if even a few of them carry back home the 10 Principles and end up better people for it?

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]]> By: gigi http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-619875 gigi Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:35:00 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-619875 As a Burning Man camp co-leader for 3 years now, I can assure you that most of the "pay to play" camps, in keeping with Burning Man ethics, are entirely non-profit organizations. We donate our labor, for many months in advance, to make these art projects happen. A fee, usually between $100 and $200, is charged to help collaboratively pay for shared services and infrastructure, including: fuel, truck rental, storage lockers, art materials, generator rental, sound systems and rebar. Most camps dumpster dive for materials (ie: the temple in 08 was made entirely of donated used furniture, scrap lumber and trash), or have materials donated or loaned from the community. There are some rare exceptions -- ie: some camps pay the chef, because it's a kick-ass, full time job, and it requires total dedication and weeks of advance planning. There are cases where we pay "scholarships" to help someone with skills the camp needs (lighting or electrical, for example) with their gas money or camp fees. In some cases, a camp will sponsor the Burning Man ticket fees for a DJ or artist. But in general, everyone pays their own way, including camp leadership. (As a camp "mayor", I not only paid for my own Burning Man ticket, but I've put thousands of dollars of my own money into these projects. I know it seems crazy, but we do it out of a love for the community we are creating, and the gift of creative inspiration. PS -- our camp and our neighboring camp, Red Lightning, shared a solar array, and took pains to be as "green" as possible, by using sustainable building materials like dumpster dive carpet, scrap wood and locally grown bamboo. As a Burning Man camp co-leader for 3 years now, I can assure you that most of the “pay to play” camps, in keeping with Burning Man ethics, are entirely non-profit organizations. We donate our labor, for many months in advance, to make these art projects happen. A fee, usually between $100 and $200, is charged to help collaboratively pay for shared services and infrastructure, including: fuel, truck rental, storage lockers, art materials, generator rental, sound systems and rebar. Most camps dumpster dive for materials (ie: the temple in 08 was made entirely of donated used furniture, scrap lumber and trash), or have materials donated or loaned from the community. There are some rare exceptions — ie: some camps pay the chef, because it’s a kick-ass, full time job, and it requires total dedication and weeks of advance planning. There are cases where we pay “scholarships” to help someone with skills the camp needs (lighting or electrical, for example) with their gas money or camp fees. In some cases, a camp will sponsor the Burning Man ticket fees for a DJ or artist. But in general, everyone pays their own way, including camp leadership. (As a camp “mayor”, I not only paid for my own Burning Man ticket, but I’ve put thousands of dollars of my own money into these projects. I know it seems crazy, but we do it out of a love for the community we are creating, and the gift of creative inspiration. PS — our camp and our neighboring camp, Red Lightning, shared a solar array, and took pains to be as “green” as possible, by using sustainable building materials like dumpster dive carpet, scrap wood and locally grown bamboo.

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]]> By: Jef http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-619874 Jef Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:34:20 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-619874 Brilliant essay! I am familiar with these kinds of theme camps but never stopped to consider how the organizers may actually be turning a profit by organizing them. I also was not aware that art cars are sometimes paid taxi services. I am becoming aware, as a political sociologist, of the implicit hierarchy emerging within Burning Man. I think more could be said about the formation of elites (BMORG volunteers, staff, but also people whose service status is unclear) and privileges ( early arrival, commissary, etc.). Brilliant essay! I am familiar with these kinds of theme camps but never stopped to consider how the organizers may actually be turning a profit by organizing them. I also was not aware that art cars are sometimes paid taxi services.

I am becoming aware, as a political sociologist, of the implicit hierarchy emerging within Burning Man. I think more could be said about the formation of elites (BMORG volunteers, staff, but also people whose service status is unclear) and privileges ( early arrival, commissary, etc.).

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]]> By: linda http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-619575 linda Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:35:20 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-619575 all points utterly well-spoken. it's sort of the nature of evolution- what happens next is an offshoot- a phoenix borne from the ashes of BM that embodies the original spirit of the festival for a few years until that too becomes commodified. from woodstocktoglastonburytotibetanfreedomtoburningmanto_____________ and beyond, it is as it always will be. put your head in the river, l all points utterly well-spoken. it’s sort of the nature of evolution- what happens next is an offshoot- a phoenix borne from the ashes of BM that embodies the original spirit of the festival for a few years until that too becomes commodified. from woodstocktoglastonburytotibetanfreedomtoburningmanto_____________ and beyond, it is as it always will be.

put your head in the river, l

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]]> By: lenny http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-619032 lenny Thu, 08 Oct 2009 23:47:49 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-619032 I'm glad a stumbled upon this site. My first burn was this year. We camped in a cramped tent and were radically self-reliant; food, water, made our own costumes..... We were toying with the idea of an RV for next year. Guess we're sticking with the tent. I’m glad a stumbled upon this site. My first burn was this year. We camped in a cramped tent and were radically self-reliant; food, water, made our own costumes…..

We were toying with the idea of an RV for next year. Guess we’re sticking with the tent.

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]]> By: Jonathan Tanis http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-618857 Jonathan Tanis Wed, 07 Oct 2009 05:00:36 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-618857 re: John McCreery You're certainly right that an ever increasing number of BM's participants are the weekend anarchist sort with no physical investment in their politics, but Burning Man isn't the type of event that can be "simply read" as anything. You can't really ignore the attendance of those dumpster-diving, train-hopping ontological anarchists who permanently inhabit the limins and margins of the social structure. Sure there's middle-class Silicon Valley programmers who mirror their principles and lifestyle, but there has to be something around for them to mirror in the first place. If there were no shepherds around than Marie Antoinette would have had a difficult time of knowing how to act out her pastoral fantasies. Burning Man is just the brightest start in a constellation of happenings, most of which are under the radar enough to actually qualify as Temporary Autonomous Zones. I think that as BM continues to be colonized by the dominant culture (which is trying to mine the one resource it dangerously lacks - radical self expression), that the permanent "drop outs" are just going to move on to new zones. And that's really the whole point of the TAZ essay. re: John McCreery

You’re certainly right that an ever increasing number of BM’s participants are the weekend anarchist sort with no physical investment in their politics, but Burning Man isn’t the type of event that can be “simply read” as anything. You can’t really ignore the attendance of those dumpster-diving, train-hopping ontological anarchists who permanently inhabit the limins and margins of the social structure. Sure there’s middle-class Silicon Valley programmers who mirror their principles and lifestyle, but there has to be something around for them to mirror in the first place. If there were no shepherds around than Marie Antoinette would have had a difficult time of knowing how to act out her pastoral fantasies.

Burning Man is just the brightest start in a constellation of happenings, most of which are under the radar enough to actually qualify as Temporary Autonomous Zones. I think that as BM continues to be colonized by the dominant culture (which is trying to mine the one resource it dangerously lacks – radical self expression), that the permanent “drop outs” are just going to move on to new zones. And that’s really the whole point of the TAZ essay.

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]]> By: John McCreery http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-618766 John McCreery Tue, 06 Oct 2009 02:52:43 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-618766 An ignorant anthropologist's question: What evidence do we have that BM was ever about "addressing injustices"? Why not simply read it as a bit of privileged play, a modern equivalent of Marie Antoinette playing at being a shepherdess on the lawn at Versailles? There are, after all, plenty of special events, times and places where rich people pretend that money doesn't count and object when the operation starts seeming too crass and commercial. An ignorant anthropologist’s question: What evidence do we have that BM was ever about “addressing injustices”?

Why not simply read it as a bit of privileged play, a modern equivalent of Marie Antoinette playing at being a shepherdess on the lawn at Versailles? There are, after all, plenty of special events, times and places where rich people pretend that money doesn’t count and object when the operation starts seeming too crass and commercial.

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]]> By: Jonas Ecke http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-618754 Jonas Ecke Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:06:10 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-618754 As a fairly non-academic novice, I wonder if this event even addresses the central injustices of the capitalist system. Not that I could ever live up to their examples, but the likes of Paul Farmer or Noam Chomsky seem to be more authoritative, albeit intimidating examples of addressing injustices. Facing the world as it is - in all its suffering, guilt and ambiguity - seems like a more appropriate strategy than building parallel societies. As a fairly non-academic novice, I wonder if this event even addresses the central injustices of the capitalist system. Not that I could ever live up to their examples, but the likes of Paul Farmer or Noam Chomsky seem to be more authoritative, albeit intimidating examples of addressing injustices. Facing the world as it is – in all its suffering, guilt and ambiguity – seems like a more appropriate strategy than building parallel societies.

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]]> By: Michael Nielsen » Biweekly links for 10/05/2009 http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-618725 Michael Nielsen » Biweekly links for 10/05/2009 Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:52:37 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-618725 [...] Emerging Capitalist Economy at Burning Man | Savage Minds [...] [...] Emerging Capitalist Economy at Burning Man | Savage Minds [...]

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]]> By: Bhagwan John http://savageminds.org/2009/10/02/emerging-capitalist-economy-at-burning-man/comment-page-1/#comment-618597 Bhagwan John Fri, 02 Oct 2009 22:12:12 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2778#comment-618597 Interesting perspective. The material and transport costs of the big art pieces, the RVs etc. certainly make this yet one more pay and you go lifestyle event. (Did I tell I went to a monster truck rally in early Spring). When I went last year, I tried to accept the real money behind the free economy as a background illusion, and tried to see the event on different scales, from different physical points of view, and through the eyes of the minute sample of people I spent time with. What fascinated me was the way each person constructed the event for themselves, and the power both individually and collectively of those illusions. I'm talking at USC on Monday and will be cruising UCLA on Tuesday. Will you be around? Interesting perspective. The material and transport costs of the big art pieces, the RVs etc. certainly make this yet one more pay and you go lifestyle event. (Did I tell I went to a monster truck rally in early Spring).

When I went last year, I tried to accept the real money behind the free economy as a background illusion, and tried to see the event on different scales, from different physical points of view, and through the eyes of the minute sample of people I spent time with. What fascinated me was the way each person constructed the event for themselves, and the power both individually and collectively of those illusions.

I’m talking at USC on Monday and will be cruising UCLA on Tuesday. Will you be around?

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