Comments on: Human Terrain in Oaxaca http://savageminds.org/2009/06/05/human-terrain-in-oaxaca/ Notes and Queries in Anthropology — A Group Blog Sat, 26 May 2012 03:33:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Chris G. http://savageminds.org/2009/06/05/human-terrain-in-oaxaca/comment-page-1/#comment-629369 Chris G. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:11:34 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2411#comment-629369 Overall I liked this piece, however it failed in providing more details as to WHY the U.S. military would be interested in that particular region. Are there valuable mineral or oil resources there? Is it purely an issue of drug trafficking? Such are issues that need to be explored more clearly. Also it did not explain how the indigenous people saw the program moving communal and public (meaning state owned) lands to private hands. If the people want to do it, who are we to say, "No you can't!"? If they don't and were forced into this program by the government, then there are many questions to ask such as whether the tribes have proper legal representation, whether their tribal leaders have been coerced, and whether they had any anthropologists advocating for them. So this article, gives me more questions then answers as things are not always what they appear. I had a rather profound and fortunate experience when as a graduate student, I had the good fortune of taking a class with a remarkable professor of Economic Anthropology by the name of Scott Cook. He is a Marxist anthropologist and at the time I was a fairly die-hard Marxist in my ideas about economics. His class completely illuminated my eyes to how Marxism and Capitalism works in the real world and especially in Mexico. One of the things that I never even thought about was that he pointed out that in areas of communal land sharing, not all farmers were of the same mind living in one big happy family. Many firmly believed that they could do better with their own land and be free to pursue types of crops that they believed would improve their family's standard of living. He did not say they were wrong and he did not say they were right. Only that this was a fact and that applied Marxism runs into the brutal reality of economic choice and naturally occurring divisions within populations that can be influenced by economic and political conditions. In short... that it was not always the Gringo to blame but rather basic market economics, real life hardships, and disagreements over economic decision making that could cause a particular farmer to want to fracture off from the communal lands. Now this professor was still Marxist, but he was also a realist who was guided by anthropological data rather then blind economic/political ideology. Since then, while my socialist bias urges me to rush to judgment, my other half remembers Dr. Cook's words and reminds me that the whole story is often not told in such articles and as such leaves me with many questions. With that said, the United States military has always made contingency plans for warfare in every part of the world. That is no secret and nothing new. One of the chief jobs of CIA officers in embassies for example is simply to gather open-source data on the host nation in order to maintain up to date files on the basic information of that country. This may be just part of a more fine-tuned method of updating such files. However for counter-insurgency such data would be useless unless kept up to date yearly as politics and events can cause rapid and violent changes that can not always be predicted. That would be a monumental task if done on a world-wide basis. A more likely "evil" scenario would be a plan on buying out private land below market value from indigenous people in order to secure rights for mineral, natural gas, or oil resources that American or transnational energy corporations could exploit. However since this project is public, if it has no mention of such possibilities, then the social scientists involved will be crucified in academic circles. In summary, if we are really concerned about this, we should read the public report on this particular human terrain study as well as see if any other social scientists have published any work regarding this region that perhaps might paint a different picture. If it does, or you start seeing these indigenous people getting screwed out of their land under this program by the Mexican government, THEN sound the alarm bells with full force and I will be just as outspoken against such usages of human terrain data. Overall I liked this piece, however it failed in providing more details as to WHY the U.S. military would be interested in that particular region. Are there valuable mineral or oil resources there? Is it purely an issue of drug trafficking? Such are issues that need to be explored more clearly. Also it did not explain how the indigenous people saw the program moving communal and public (meaning state owned) lands to private hands. If the people want to do it, who are we to say, “No you can’t!”? If they don’t and were forced into this program by the government, then there are many questions to ask such as whether the tribes have proper legal representation, whether their tribal leaders have been coerced, and whether they had any anthropologists advocating for them.
So this article, gives me more questions then answers as things are not always what they appear.

I had a rather profound and fortunate experience when as a graduate student, I had the good fortune of taking a class with a remarkable professor of Economic Anthropology by the name of Scott Cook. He is a Marxist anthropologist and at the time I was a fairly die-hard Marxist in my ideas about economics. His class completely illuminated my eyes to how Marxism and Capitalism works in the real world and especially in Mexico. One of the things that I never even thought about was that he pointed out that in areas of communal land sharing, not all farmers were of the same mind living in one big happy family. Many firmly believed that they could do better with their own land and be free to pursue types of crops that they believed would improve their family’s standard of living. He did not say they were wrong and he did not say they were right. Only that this was a fact and that applied Marxism runs into the brutal reality of economic choice and naturally occurring divisions within populations that can be influenced by economic and political conditions. In short… that it was not always the Gringo to blame but rather basic market economics, real life hardships, and disagreements over economic decision making that could cause a particular farmer to want to fracture off from the communal lands. Now this professor was still Marxist, but he was also a realist who was guided by anthropological data rather then blind economic/political ideology.
Since then, while my socialist bias urges me to rush to judgment, my other half remembers Dr. Cook’s words and reminds me that the whole story is often not told in such articles and as such leaves me with many questions.

With that said, the United States military has always made contingency plans for warfare in every part of the world. That is no secret and nothing new. One of the chief jobs of CIA officers in embassies for example is simply to gather open-source data on the host nation in order to maintain up to date files on the basic information of that country. This may be just part of a more fine-tuned method of updating such files. However for counter-insurgency such data would be useless unless kept up to date yearly as politics and events can cause rapid and violent changes that can not always be predicted. That would be a monumental task if done on a world-wide basis.
A more likely “evil” scenario would be a plan on buying out private land below market value from indigenous people in order to secure rights for mineral, natural gas, or oil resources that American or transnational energy corporations could exploit. However since this project is public, if it has no mention of such possibilities, then the social scientists involved will be crucified in academic circles.

In summary, if we are really concerned about this, we should read the public report on this particular human terrain study as well as see if any other social scientists have published any work regarding this region that perhaps might paint a different picture.
If it does, or you start seeing these indigenous people getting screwed out of their land under this program by the Mexican government, THEN sound the alarm bells with full force and I will be just as outspoken against such usages of human terrain data.

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]]> By: Savage Minds Rewind: The Best of 2009 | Savage Minds http://savageminds.org/2009/06/05/human-terrain-in-oaxaca/comment-page-1/#comment-627247 Savage Minds Rewind: The Best of 2009 | Savage Minds Sat, 02 Jan 2010 22:31:43 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2411#comment-627247 [...] picked up on the world of anthropology- from Dustin’s great post on Human Terrain in Oaxaca, Ethnic Studies Under Attack, Tom’s breakdown of the UK anthropology rankings, the burgeoning [...] [...] picked up on the world of anthropology- from Dustin’s great post on Human Terrain in Oaxaca, Ethnic Studies Under Attack, Tom’s breakdown of the UK anthropology rankings, the burgeoning [...]

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]]> By: Unspoken Implications Should be Addressed « A Change of State http://savageminds.org/2009/06/05/human-terrain-in-oaxaca/comment-page-1/#comment-610561 Unspoken Implications Should be Addressed « A Change of State Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:38:02 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2411#comment-610561 [...] for unethical purposes (e.g. justifying sterilization campaigns) quite easily. After reading an article (”Human Terrain in Oaxaca”) I felt it necessary to clarify what I meant by [...] [...] for unethical purposes (e.g. justifying sterilization campaigns) quite easily. After reading an article (”Human Terrain in Oaxaca”) I felt it necessary to clarify what I meant by [...]

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]]> By: Jason Jackson http://savageminds.org/2009/06/05/human-terrain-in-oaxaca/comment-page-1/#comment-608990 Jason Jackson Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:11:24 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2411#comment-608990 I wanted to say thanks for the effort that went into this piece. I have forwarded it to various folks with special interests in the issue. Like Maximillian Forte I have wondered about the general quietness around here. My guess is that it is a mix of summer busyness (kids, articles, trips, fieldwork) combined with many people poking around and experimenting in OAC. Wouldn't Oneman's very useful post be the kind of thing that the discussion groups in OAC would want to be discussing? Maybe that can be orchestrated. I wanted to say thanks for the effort that went into this piece. I have forwarded it to various folks with special interests in the issue.

Like Maximillian Forte I have wondered about the general quietness around here. My guess is that it is a mix of summer busyness (kids, articles, trips, fieldwork) combined with many people poking around and experimenting in OAC. Wouldn’t Oneman’s very useful post be the kind of thing that the discussion groups in OAC would want to be discussing? Maybe that can be orchestrated.

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]]> By: Maximilian Forte http://savageminds.org/2009/06/05/human-terrain-in-oaxaca/comment-page-1/#comment-608852 Maximilian Forte Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:51:24 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2411#comment-608852 I liked this article very much. I had planned to write on the same topic, delayed, and then you "scooped" me you #@&%$ ! Well, it was not going to be any scoop anyway, and I don't think it would have been as good as this. I am surprised that this post has not received more commentary to this point. I guess that's good news then: no disagreement from anyone. I liked this article very much. I had planned to write on the same topic, delayed, and then you “scooped” me you #@&%$ ! Well, it was not going to be any scoop anyway, and I don’t think it would have been as good as this. I am surprised that this post has not received more commentary to this point. I guess that’s good news then: no disagreement from anyone.

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]]> By: MTBradley http://savageminds.org/2009/06/05/human-terrain-in-oaxaca/comment-page-1/#comment-607523 MTBradley Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:10:00 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=2411#comment-607523 There’s a recent Annual Review article which is relevant: http://dx.doi.org/10.1146/annurev.anthro.34.081804.120429 It should go without saying that geographic documentation can also help prevent the exploitation of vulnerable peoples. Whether the people of Oaxaca—and what does that mean in this context? are we talking about federal/state/local/“traditional” governments? title holders? individuals in general?—were already aware of this fact or had yet to have had it adequately impressed upon them when consenting to the project also seems germane. There’s a recent Annual Review article which is relevant: http://dx.doi.org/10.1146/annurev.anthro.34.081804.120429

It should go without saying that geographic documentation can also help prevent the exploitation of vulnerable peoples. Whether the people of Oaxaca—and what does that mean in this context? are we talking about federal/state/local/“traditional” governments? title holders? individuals in general?—were already aware of this fact or had yet to have had it adequately impressed upon them when consenting to the project also seems germane.

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