Comments on: Jared Diamond’s ‘Light Elephants’ and Dark Revenge In The New Yorker: The Problems of Amateur Anthropology http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/ Notes and Queries in Anthropology — A Group Blog Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:06:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: (Re)Programming currently under way: « Natures/Cultures http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-629389 (Re)Programming currently under way: « Natures/Cultures Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:33:08 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-629389 [...] Collapse“ Alex Golub, “Jared Diamond is Diluting my Brand“ Nancy Sullivan, “Light Elephants and Dark Revenge in the New Yorker“ Alex Golub, “Melanesian Vengeance, Western Vengeance, and Natural Vengeance“ [...] [...] Collapse“ Alex Golub, “Jared Diamond is Diluting my Brand“ Nancy Sullivan, “Light Elephants and Dark Revenge in the New Yorker“ Alex Golub, “Melanesian Vengeance, Western Vengeance, and Natural Vengeance“ [...]

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]]> By: Sorting Stones « Neuroanthropology http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-604068 Sorting Stones « Neuroanthropology Thu, 21 May 2009 14:13:15 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-604068 [...] controversy. If I had to pick one piece for this audience, it would be Nancy Sullivan’s ‘Light Elephants’ and Dark Revenge In The New Yorker: The Problems of Amateur Anthropology. Besides covering ethical concerns, she brings a deep ethnographic appreciation from a more [...] [...] controversy. If I had to pick one piece for this audience, it would be Nancy Sullivan’s ‘Light Elephants’ and Dark Revenge In The New Yorker: The Problems of Amateur Anthropology. Besides covering ethical concerns, she brings a deep ethnographic appreciation from a more [...]

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]]> By: Collide-a-scape » Blog Archive » Collide-a-scape >> The New Yorker and Diamond Respond http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-602952 Collide-a-scape » Blog Archive » Collide-a-scape >> The New Yorker and Diamond Respond Fri, 15 May 2009 10:05:33 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-602952 [...] talking to you, Rhonda Shearer, and to a lesser extent, you guys over at Savage Minds.  Time to [...] [...] talking to you, Rhonda Shearer, and to a lesser extent, you guys over at Savage Minds.  Time to [...]

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]]> By: Rhonda R Shearer http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-602933 Rhonda R Shearer Fri, 15 May 2009 04:19:00 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-602933 I just heard back from UCLA --Diamond's employer. He has not had any IRB reviews for his PNG work. I just heard back from UCLA –Diamond’s employer. He has not had any IRB reviews for his PNG work.

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]]> By: reader1138 http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-602479 reader1138 Wed, 13 May 2009 10:02:01 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-602479 [REDACTED - Substantive comments only please. - ED] [REDACTED - Substantive comments only please. - ED]

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]]> By: Collide-a-scape » Blog Archive » Collide-a-scape >> Diamond Hunt Goes Amiss http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-601937 Collide-a-scape » Blog Archive » Collide-a-scape >> Diamond Hunt Goes Amiss Mon, 11 May 2009 05:12:43 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-601937 [...] quite a spectacle over at Savage Minds, with a bunch of anthros, (apparent) journos and one sculptor/art [...] [...] quite a spectacle over at Savage Minds, with a bunch of anthros, (apparent) journos and one sculptor/art [...]

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]]> By: jh http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-601925 jh Mon, 11 May 2009 01:40:58 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-601925 No, you are not confusing the two. But they seem to forget that they had a faculty member who is still obligated to follow his university guidelines when writing for the New Yorker. The New Yorker is not the basis on which Diamond claims his authority. But he claims to be a researcher. So he is obligated to follow protocol. If not legally (and according to the contract of his employment) then certainly ethically. Speaking of self representation... his degree was in physiology and biophysics, but this is conveniently forgotten on his department web page. http://www.geog.ucla.edu/people/faculty.php?lid=3078&display_one=1&modify=1 No, you are not confusing the two. But they seem to forget that they had a faculty member who is still obligated to follow his university guidelines when writing for the New Yorker. The New Yorker is not the basis on which Diamond claims his authority. But he claims to be a researcher. So he is obligated to follow protocol. If not legally (and according to the contract of his employment) then certainly ethically.

Speaking of self representation… his degree was in physiology and biophysics, but this is conveniently forgotten on his department web page.
http://www.geog.ucla.edu/people/faculty.php?lid=3078&display_one=1&modify=1

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]]> By: Rhonda R Shearer http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-601905 Rhonda R Shearer Sun, 10 May 2009 23:51:12 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-601905 Jh wrote: "Just curious, but did Diamond have an IRB for human subjects research?" I have asked UCLA IRB if they reviewed the research Diamond did for World Wildlife Fund (WWF) 2001-2002 in PNG (when Wemp was driving him around as a WWF employee) . When Diamond writes about this consulting work he refers to getting permission for interviewing Chevron employees in addition to the bird watching. I am waiting for UCLA IRB's answer. I do know from New Yorker editor that Diamond had no written or "informed consent." She told me I was "confusing" journalism (which she claimed was what Dr. Diamond was doing) with science. Jh wrote: “Just curious, but did Diamond have an IRB for human subjects research?”

I have asked UCLA IRB if they reviewed the research Diamond did for World Wildlife Fund (WWF) 2001-2002 in PNG (when Wemp was driving him around as a WWF employee) . When Diamond writes about this consulting work he refers to getting permission for interviewing Chevron employees in addition to the bird watching.

I am waiting for UCLA IRB’s answer.

I do know from New Yorker editor that Diamond had no written or “informed consent.” She told me I was “confusing” journalism (which she claimed was what Dr. Diamond was doing) with science.

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]]> By: been following this the whole time http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-601814 been following this the whole time Sun, 10 May 2009 22:11:42 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-601814 I back from her website, from which I copy and paste the relevant portion of her CV: NAME: Dr. Nancy Sullivan NATIONALITY: USA QUALIFICATIONS: PhD anthropology with specialization in PNG media production (abd) I back from her website, from which I copy and paste the relevant portion of her CV:

NAME: Dr. Nancy Sullivan
NATIONALITY: USA
QUALIFICATIONS:
PhD anthropology with specialization in PNG media production (abd)

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]]> By: been following this the whole time http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-601811 been following this the whole time Sun, 10 May 2009 22:08:59 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-601811 So, you found out that she *consistently* has noted herself as the holder of a non-existent degree? [PhD (abd)] I don't really see what the point of pointing that out is. The whole problem was that you can't *really* be a "PhD (abd)." the "abd" part makes the "PhD" part impossible, doesn't it? Others were more worried that she claimed for herself the title of "Dr." So, you found out that she *consistently* has noted herself as the holder of a non-existent degree? [PhD (abd)]
I don’t really see what the point of pointing that out is.

The whole problem was that you can’t *really* be a “PhD (abd).” the “abd” part makes the “PhD” part impossible, doesn’t it? Others were more worried that she claimed for herself the title of “Dr.”

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]]> By: bonnie garner http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-601731 bonnie garner Sun, 10 May 2009 21:13:32 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-601731 Nancy Sullivan- caught being truthful! Nancy Sullivan caught being Ethical! By accepting what someone posted here- without 'fact checking' or requesting they post a link awful libelous threads were posted wrongly accusing Nancy Sullivan of misrepresenting herself on her website. Too many posts here rehashed her qualifications and weather or not she lived up to the ethical standards expected of her. Well, she did. She lived up to the ethical standards of reporting academic credentials and as we have come to learn, she has lived up to so much more. Using waybackmachine.org I was able to check her website postings from the very first one to the very last one. In every one I checked Nancy Sullivan listed her credentials as PhD(abd). Rex, this is one reason you can't take a live and let live attitude about posters- the "whatever" stance you took. Allowing posters, especially anonymous ones to make accusations of "fraud" is a terrible mistake. Like it or not this responsibility rests with you. In light of the number of posts discussing the awful "untruth" here I write again: Nancy Sullivan caught being Ethical! Bonnie Garner Nancy Sullivan- caught being truthful! Nancy Sullivan caught being Ethical!
By accepting what someone posted here- without ‘fact checking’ or requesting they post a link awful libelous threads were posted wrongly accusing Nancy Sullivan of misrepresenting herself on her website. Too many posts here rehashed her qualifications and weather or not she lived up to the ethical standards expected of her. Well, she did. She lived up to the ethical standards of reporting academic credentials and as we have come to learn, she has lived up to so much more.
Using waybackmachine.org I was able to check her website postings from the very first one to the very last one. In every one I checked Nancy Sullivan listed her credentials as PhD(abd).
Rex, this is one reason you can’t take a live and let live attitude about posters- the “whatever” stance you took. Allowing posters, especially anonymous ones to make accusations of “fraud” is a terrible mistake. Like it or not this responsibility rests with you.
In light of the number of posts discussing the awful “untruth” here I write again:
Nancy Sullivan caught being Ethical!

Bonnie Garner

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]]> By: jh http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-601725 jh Sun, 10 May 2009 19:46:07 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-601725 Just curious, but did Diamond have an IRB for human subjects research? Just curious, but did Diamond have an IRB for human subjects research?

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]]> By: been following this the whole time http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-601718 been following this the whole time Sun, 10 May 2009 16:26:30 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-601718 Yup, Rhonda, all those things are fantastic. I am sure she is eminently qualified. She's just not credentialed. Yup, Rhonda, all those things are fantastic. I am sure she is eminently qualified. She’s just not credentialed.

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]]> By: David Taylor http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-601716 David Taylor Sun, 10 May 2009 15:34:33 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-601716 There is no doubt whatsoever that Nancy Sullivan is an extraordinarily well-qualified anthropologist, and her contribution to the Diamond issue is terrific. There seems to be no disagreement on that. I was not in the least troubled by someone listing themself as "PhD (abd)" -- a small twist on reality, at worst. (Of course, for the uninitiated "abd" could have been interpreted as "absolutely brilliant dissertation"...) But when I checked Nancy's website I was more surprised to see that she does call herself "Dr." Nancy Sullivan, and that is simply wrong. That mis-identification is of a different order than the PhD (abd) matter. That is a more clear misrepresentation of one's status. As we are moving out of the phase of a new U.S. president's nomination of so many appointees, perhaps Nancy and others will understand that the slighest whiff of dishonesty has often de-railed appointments, sometimes over minor issues that have nothing to do with the candidate's qualifications for office. I'm much more sympathetic to those who question Nancy's honesty since seeing the "Dr." designation -- and her explanation merely tells us why she does not have a PhD, not why she nonetheless calls herself "Dr." -- David There is no doubt whatsoever that Nancy Sullivan is an extraordinarily well-qualified anthropologist, and her contribution to the Diamond issue is terrific. There seems to be no disagreement on that.

I was not in the least troubled by someone listing themself as “PhD (abd)” — a small twist on reality, at worst. (Of course, for the uninitiated “abd” could have been interpreted as “absolutely brilliant dissertation”…) But when I checked Nancy’s website I was more surprised to see that she does call herself “Dr.” Nancy Sullivan, and that is simply wrong. That mis-identification is of a different order than the PhD (abd) matter. That is a more clear misrepresentation of one’s status.

As we are moving out of the phase of a new U.S. president’s nomination of so many appointees, perhaps Nancy and others will understand that the slighest whiff of dishonesty has often de-railed appointments, sometimes over minor issues that have nothing to do with the candidate’s qualifications for office. I’m much more sympathetic to those who question Nancy’s honesty since seeing the “Dr.” designation — and her explanation merely tells us why she does not have a PhD, not why she nonetheless calls herself “Dr.”

– David

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]]> By: Rhonda R Shearer http://savageminds.org/2009/05/06/jared-diamonds-light-elephants-and-dark-revenge-in-the-new-yorker-the-problems-of-amateur-anthropology/comment-page-2/#comment-601694 Rhonda R Shearer Sun, 10 May 2009 02:58:00 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=1985#comment-601694 For the Record: Nancy Sullivan's NYU PhD advisors write letters of support over the years knowing full well her degree status as PhD (ABD)--hence why, with their support and from others in anthropology, she recently won a Guggenheim. Therefore these claims of fraud (even suggesting that she needs to apologize to NYU) are outrageous libels and make no sense as well as serve as cruel distractions from what is real about Nancy and her work. She has earned her way in spades: It's all on her web site: Her many grants, her work for the PNG government, her authorship and editing of books with Divine Word University, her company that trains Papua New Guinean ethnographers, her whistle-blowing reports of manufacturing plants, labour issues, corruption, and conservation in PNGand her articles about virtually all aspects of PNG popular culture. PNG Anthropologists say she speaks Tok Pisin like a native Papua New Guinean, such is her competence . For the Record:

Nancy Sullivan’s NYU PhD advisors write letters of support over the years knowing full well her degree status as PhD (ABD)–hence why, with their support and from others in anthropology, she recently won a Guggenheim.

Therefore these claims of fraud (even suggesting that she needs to apologize to NYU) are outrageous libels and make no sense as well as serve as cruel distractions from what is real about Nancy and her work. She has earned her way in spades: It’s all on her web site: Her many grants, her work for the PNG government, her authorship and editing of books with Divine Word University, her company that trains Papua New Guinean ethnographers, her whistle-blowing reports of manufacturing plants, labour issues, corruption, and conservation in PNGand her articles about virtually all aspects of PNG popular culture. PNG Anthropologists say she speaks Tok Pisin like a native Papua New Guinean, such is her competence .

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