Comments on: Fear and Othering in Iraq: The Lagouranis Account http://savageminds.org/2007/09/22/fear-and-othering-in-iraq-the-lagouranis-account/ Notes and Queries in Anthropology — A Group Blog Fri, 25 May 2012 11:29:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Laura http://savageminds.org/2007/09/22/fear-and-othering-in-iraq-the-lagouranis-account/comment-page-1/#comment-121023 Laura Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:18:12 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/09/22/fear-and-othering-in-iraq-the-lagouranis-account/#comment-121023 Gregory, I remember your article well - in fact, I've cited it in several of the drafts that I put together around this topic. It was a short and very sharp piece. Add to what you've said the idea of SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - the abuse of prisoners seems to reflect a lot of the themes in that training, and certainly the archival material supports this. But that's obviously not everything, as the archival material also shows some really bizarre constructions of an Other at play, too. Then add to that Laurie's comments about the military's general clumsiness in dealing with the nuances of culture, and the utter chaos with which the war was launched, and the literature in group psychology on torture and evil (i.e., Waller and Zimbardo), and you begin to get a sense of how complicated this whole problem is. Reducing it to "Patai as torture manual" or "Patai as source of stereotypes" is far too simple (simplistic?). I've started my own blog on this work - please contact me off list (kaidog@mac.com) and let's exchange ideas. I'm thrilled to hear from you. Gregory, I remember your article well – in fact, I’ve cited it in several of the drafts that I put together around this topic. It was a short and very sharp piece.

Add to what you’ve said the idea of SERE – Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape – the abuse of prisoners seems to reflect a lot of the themes in that training, and certainly the archival material supports this. But that’s obviously not everything, as the archival material also shows some really bizarre constructions of an Other at play, too. Then add to that Laurie’s comments about the military’s general clumsiness in dealing with the nuances of culture, and the utter chaos with which the war was launched, and the literature in group psychology on torture and evil (i.e., Waller and Zimbardo), and you begin to get a sense of how complicated this whole problem is. Reducing it to “Patai as torture manual” or “Patai as source of stereotypes” is far too simple (simplistic?).

I’ve started my own blog on this work – please contact me off list (kaidog {at} mac(.)com) and let’s exchange ideas. I’m thrilled to hear from you.

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]]> By: Gregory Starrett http://savageminds.org/2007/09/22/fear-and-othering-in-iraq-the-lagouranis-account/comment-page-1/#comment-120946 Gregory Starrett Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:01:15 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/09/22/fear-and-othering-in-iraq-the-lagouranis-account/#comment-120946 Laura, this is fascinating, necessary, and indeed depressing work. Thank you for doing this. In the fall of 2004, after the Abu Ghraib scandal broke, I did a short piece for Anthropology News, looking much too briefly at the implications of using anthropological texts as the basis for understanding Abu Ghraib and the GWOT. Later that fall, though, something else struck me as a possible context for the understandings and models young soldiers may have brought to the practice of humiliating prisoners. I saw the very popular movie "Jackass" in a hotel room somewhere. Although folks like Rush Limbaugh have been rightly dismissed for claiming that the abuse at AG was no worse that fraternity pranks, it's possible that particular habits of media use by young men might have contributed imagery or inspiration to some of their actions as soldiers. The "Jackass" film and television series shows young men engaging voluntarily in various kinds of painful and humiliating activities (e.g. tying bottle rockets to their penises and setting them off). The content of the show, concentrating on self-inflicted pain and on genital and scatalogical display, might be a source of inspiration separate from the sorts of "Arab stereotypes" drawn from the work of Patai and others, particularly insofar as it approached pain and humiliation as a form of entertainment. Elements of male youth culture might be worth following up on. It's worth emphasizing as well that there is widespread use of standard and legitimate anthropological research, badly mischaracterized and misunderstood by those in other fields, particularly psychology and psychiatry, entering into some military evaluations of "enemy psychology." I've seen the work of Clifford Geertz as well as that of Donald Cole and Soraya Altorki--respected Middle East anthropologists--cited in military and psychological periodicals and websites as support for various negative claims about Arab psychosexual development and thought (e.g., that polygamy predisposes young Arab men to develop deep latent resentment toward "the absent father," making them more susceptible to sudden, overwhelming rage). The chaos of the situation and the naivete of the young soldiers thrust into it is matched on the other end of the line by tightly disciplined readings (whether by psychoanalysts or political scientists) of anthropological data. Laura, this is fascinating, necessary, and indeed depressing work. Thank you for doing this. In the fall of 2004, after the Abu Ghraib scandal broke, I did a short piece for Anthropology News, looking much too briefly at the implications of using anthropological texts as the basis for understanding Abu Ghraib and the GWOT. Later that fall, though, something else struck me as a possible context for the understandings and models young soldiers may have brought to the practice of humiliating prisoners. I saw the very popular movie “Jackass” in a hotel room somewhere. Although folks like Rush Limbaugh have been rightly dismissed for claiming that the abuse at AG was no worse that fraternity pranks, it’s possible that particular habits of media use by young men might have contributed imagery or inspiration to some of their actions as soldiers. The “Jackass” film and television series shows young men engaging voluntarily in various kinds of painful and humiliating activities (e.g. tying bottle rockets to their penises and setting them off). The content of the show, concentrating on self-inflicted pain and on genital and scatalogical display, might be a source of inspiration separate from the sorts of “Arab stereotypes” drawn from the work of Patai and others, particularly insofar as it approached pain and humiliation as a form of entertainment. Elements of male youth culture might be worth following up on.
It’s worth emphasizing as well that there is widespread use of standard and legitimate anthropological research, badly mischaracterized and misunderstood by those in other fields, particularly psychology and psychiatry, entering into some military evaluations of “enemy psychology.” I’ve seen the work of Clifford Geertz as well as that of Donald Cole and Soraya Altorki–respected Middle East anthropologists–cited in military and psychological periodicals and websites as support for various negative claims about Arab psychosexual development and thought (e.g., that polygamy predisposes young Arab men to develop deep latent resentment toward “the absent father,” making them more susceptible to sudden, overwhelming rage). The chaos of the situation and the naivete of the young soldiers thrust into it is matched on the other end of the line by tightly disciplined readings (whether by psychoanalysts or political scientists) of anthropological data.

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