Comments on: The importance of hand waviness http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/ Notes and Queries in Anthropology — A Group Blog Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:06:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: the lolruscape « Culture Matters http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/comment-page-1/#comment-100425 the lolruscape « Culture Matters Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:25:15 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/#comment-100425 [...] with the comment, “The brand evolves.” That got Rex thinking about what he calls “the importance of handwaviness” (mark my words, Rex has coined a neologism that will stick.)  Let me quote from Rex’s [...] [...] with the comment, “The brand evolves.” That got Rex thinking about what he calls “the importance of handwaviness” (mark my words, Rex has coined a neologism that will stick.)  Let me quote from Rex’s [...]

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]]> By: Alexandre http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/comment-page-1/#comment-84142 Alexandre Mon, 11 Jun 2007 02:04:51 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/#comment-84142 Thanks, John, for the moral support. I'm at the end of a rather long period of changes in my language ideology management. I still notice a number of differences between English- and French-speakers in Europe and North America in terms of conversational strategies. A bit difficult to describe without resorting to stereotypes but it still makes for awkward interactions, including in learning situations. Maybe I'm just thinking about my teaching too much (just received my evaluations) but it seems that conversational goals vary greatly between speakers of these two languages. As if Grice's maxims were meant for Anglophones and Francophones had decided on their own «maximes». I do hope to be able to express this in a way that makes sense in both communities. Not that it'd apply universally, but it could serve me in explaining my own behaviour. Thanks, John, for the moral support. I’m at the end of a rather long period of changes in my language ideology management. I still notice a number of differences between English- and French-speakers in Europe and North America in terms of conversational strategies. A bit difficult to describe without resorting to stereotypes but it still makes for awkward interactions, including in learning situations. Maybe I’m just thinking about my teaching too much (just received my evaluations) but it seems that conversational goals vary greatly between speakers of these two languages. As if Grice’s maxims were meant for Anglophones and Francophones had decided on their own «maximes».
I do hope to be able to express this in a way that makes sense in both communities. Not that it’d apply universally, but it could serve me in explaining my own behaviour.

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]]> By: John McCreery http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/comment-page-1/#comment-84076 John McCreery Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:34:14 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/#comment-84076 <blockquote>The idea then isn’t to convince someone else or even to provide an argument but to inspire inquiring minds.</blockquote> A lovely sentence for a lovely idea. Consider how often those who intend to convince or to argue aim to shut down discussion ("I got it right, so there!") instead of stimulating a constructive response.

The idea then isn’t to convince someone else or even to provide an argument but to inspire inquiring minds.

A lovely sentence for a lovely idea. Consider how often those who intend to convince or to argue aim to shut down discussion (“I got it right, so there!”) instead of stimulating a constructive response.

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]]> By: Alexandre http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/comment-page-1/#comment-83434 Alexandre Sat, 09 Jun 2007 19:57:23 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/#comment-83434 Many French thinkers use a similar approach to writing. It's in fact one that I enjoy quite a bit. The idea then isn't to convince someone else or even to provide an argument but to inspire inquiring minds. Most English-speaking scholars dismiss this approach from students even when they appreciate the texts from important French figures. Lévi-Strauss is an obvious example of such, especially in his "proof by accumulation" style: <em>Mythologiques</em>, <em>Potière jalouse</em>, and the "Wild Pansy" book the mistranslation of which gave a name to this blog. But CLS is more of an argumentator. Possibly out of his U.S. training, he's the most American of French anthropologists, IMHO. Bourdieu could be a good example if he were better understood by people who read him, in the U.S. He apparently had a lot of fun with how English-speakers tended to label him as "PoMo." My personal favourites for inspiration through hand-waving include Barthes and Attali. For North Americans, there's E.T. Hall. And, now that I have finally understood his work to be in the same type, McLuhan. Many French thinkers use a similar approach to writing. It’s in fact one that I enjoy quite a bit. The idea then isn’t to convince someone else or even to provide an argument but to inspire inquiring minds.
Most English-speaking scholars dismiss this approach from students even when they appreciate the texts from important French figures.
Lévi-Strauss is an obvious example of such, especially in his “proof by accumulation” style: Mythologiques, Potière jalouse, and the “Wild Pansy” book the mistranslation of which gave a name to this blog. But CLS is more of an argumentator. Possibly out of his U.S. training, he’s the most American of French anthropologists, IMHO.
Bourdieu could be a good example if he were better understood by people who read him, in the U.S. He apparently had a lot of fun with how English-speakers tended to label him as “PoMo.”
My personal favourites for inspiration through hand-waving include Barthes and Attali. For North Americans, there’s E.T. Hall. And, now that I have finally understood his work to be in the same type, McLuhan.

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]]> By: LLWynn http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/comment-page-1/#comment-82932 LLWynn Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:45:19 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/#comment-82932 DooD, this posting was hilarious. But there are apparently some pictures missing that I'm sure would have furthered the hilarity -- can you edit them in somehow? DooD, this posting was hilarious. But there are apparently some pictures missing that I’m sure would have furthered the hilarity — can you edit them in somehow?

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]]> By: Anthrodiva http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/comment-page-1/#comment-82852 Anthrodiva Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:34:20 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/#comment-82852 Commenting on both examples together when I haven't read either one - perhaps it's just that the ratio of handwaving to facts has become lopsided in our discipline? Commenting on both examples
together when I haven’t read either one – perhaps it’s just that the ratio of handwaving to facts has become lopsided in our discipline?

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]]> By: John McCreery http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/comment-page-1/#comment-82819 John McCreery Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:13:03 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/#comment-82819 My own first thought about Fischer's piece is how much it expects and demands of the reader. I've read or at least heard about most of the authors he mentions, but I can't imagine anyone who isn't a serious theory geek not being overwhelmed. A bravura display of erudition, yes; a useful crib for a grad student reviewing for quals, yes; a program for a really smart undergraduate, "This is what you've got to master over the next few years,"maybe. Anybody else, watch the eyes glaze, watch the heads explode. Which is too bad, since the basic idea of cultural analysis as experimental systems (ideas competing with other ideas as descriptions of reality, not totally wrong, not totally right) is a valuable insight, one that should be taught early and often. My own first thought about Fischer’s piece is how much it expects and demands of the reader. I’ve read or at least heard about most of the authors he mentions, but I can’t imagine anyone who isn’t a serious theory geek not being overwhelmed. A bravura display of erudition, yes; a useful crib for a grad student reviewing for quals, yes; a program for a really smart undergraduate, “This is what you’ve got to master over the next few years,”maybe. Anybody else, watch the eyes glaze, watch the heads explode.

Which is too bad, since the basic idea of cultural analysis as experimental systems (ideas competing with other ideas as descriptions of reality, not totally wrong, not totally right) is a valuable insight, one that should be taught early and often.

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]]> By: itsalljustaride http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/comment-page-1/#comment-82648 itsalljustaride Fri, 08 Jun 2007 03:24:01 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/#comment-82648 While I never got too interested in Appadurai, I did find his representation of globalization as a system of interlocking and overlapping "spheres" helpful for explaining some of my undergrad paper topics. As "globalization" is not yet fully understood as a modern concept, and is still fairly nebulous as far as I can tell, you can't begrudge the man for being a bit "hand-wavy". If I were in an undergrad class and they had started teaching globalization from a bottom-up approach, getting bogged down in details and specific case studies right off the bat, I certainly would have tuned out. Of course, while both bottom-up and top-down approaches need to be explained to get a full picture, some concepts could lend themselves to one approach over the other initially, especially depending on individual pedagogical styles. So, theoretically it could work both ways depending on how you structure the discussion. You could start out with a specific case and expand on how that case manifests itself in a global system. While I never got too interested in Appadurai, I did find his representation of globalization as a system of interlocking and overlapping “spheres” helpful for explaining some of my undergrad paper topics. As “globalization” is not yet fully understood as a modern concept, and is still fairly nebulous as far as I can tell, you can’t begrudge the man for being a bit “hand-wavy”.

If I were in an undergrad class and they had started teaching globalization from a bottom-up approach, getting bogged down in details and specific case studies right off the bat, I certainly would have tuned out.

Of course, while both bottom-up and top-down approaches need to be explained to get a full picture, some concepts could lend themselves to one approach over the other initially, especially depending on individual pedagogical styles.

So, theoretically it could work both ways depending on how you structure the discussion. You could start out with a specific case and expand on how that case manifests itself in a global system.

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]]> By: Fuji Lozada http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/comment-page-1/#comment-82511 Fuji Lozada Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:23:24 +0000 http://savageminds.org/2007/06/07/the-importance-of-hand-waviness/#comment-82511 This post resonated with what I just read in a NYT article (sent to me b/c of a filter for anthropology). It was in a sports article, about Billy Donovan's decision to stay as a college basketball coach instead of the pro's. Here's the quote: "Maybe in a reported telephone conversation between mentor and disciple Pitino reminded Donovan of how some of the same players who jumped to his every frenzied college command tuned him out as if he were an anthropology professor when they were reunited in the pros." Is this because of our lack of enthusiasm -- not enough hand-waving -- or because of the hand-waving? Why did the reporter choose the anthropology professor as the epitome of the one to tune out, like Ferris Bueller's economics teacher? I will have to do some catching up myself- I did not yet read Fisher's piece. This post resonated with what I just read in a NYT article (sent to me b/c of a filter for anthropology). It was in a sports article, about Billy Donovan’s decision to stay as a college basketball coach instead of the pro’s. Here’s the quote:

“Maybe in a reported telephone conversation between mentor and disciple Pitino reminded Donovan of how some of the same players who jumped to his every frenzied college command tuned him out as if he were an anthropology professor when they were reunited in the pros.”

Is this because of our lack of enthusiasm — not enough hand-waving — or because of the hand-waving? Why did the reporter choose the anthropology professor as the epitome of the one to tune out, like Ferris Bueller’s economics teacher?

I will have to do some catching up myself- I did not yet read Fisher’s piece.

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