Comments on: World Simulation Part Two: The Basics http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/ Notes and Queries in Anthropology — A Group Blog Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:45:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: blog.cguy.org » Critique de l’impérialisme bio-culturel du jeu Civilization http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-51137 blog.cguy.org » Critique de l’impérialisme bio-culturel du jeu Civilization Thu, 08 Feb 2007 16:30:39 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-51137 [...] Savage Minds: World Simulation: Part One: Constructing the World Savage Minds: World Simulation Part Two: The Basics [...] [...] Savage Minds: World Simulation: Part One: Constructing the World Savage Minds: World Simulation Part Two: The Basics [...]

]]> By: Garry Peterson http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-47675 Garry Peterson Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:19:12 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-47675 The course sounds fantastic. Now that you have run the class several times, do you do get the students to do comparisons of the outcomes between different classes? It could be a way to expand people's thinking. Re: publishing the material One possibility would be an interdisciplinary web-journal such as Ecology and Society. http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/ You could write an article on the course and then link to a wiki. The journal is focussed on people nature interactions - and has published a number of articles on transciplinary courses, as well as using models as tools for learning. e.g. http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/viewissue.php?sf=25 http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/viewissue.php?sf=12 I suspect they would be very interested in your course. The course sounds fantastic. Now that you have run the class several times, do you do get the students to do comparisons of the outcomes between different classes? It could be a way to expand people’s thinking.

Re: publishing the material

One possibility would be an interdisciplinary web-journal such as Ecology and Society.

http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/

You could write an article on the course and then link to a wiki. The journal is focussed on people nature interactions – and has published a number of articles on transciplinary courses, as well as using models as tools for learning.

e.g.
http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/viewissue.php?sf=25

http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/viewissue.php?sf=12

I suspect they would be very interested in your course.

]]> By: Justine Lemos http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-39848 Justine Lemos Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:37:55 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-39848 Mike: Thank you for the prompt reply. Any way you distribute the information- I think it will be an extremely useful format for teaching. I think having an element of interaction between instructors using the format would be great. I especially like the idea of being able to post comments etc. Perhaps you can develop a structure that will result in both a published manuscript of "instructions" and a wiki site- so you get the tenure credit and the benefits of the web? I was also wondering if you have incorporated disease into the simulation? I would think it might be interesting if some populations had disease immunity and others could contract disease depending upon where they decided to explore or colonize? I just really like this format that has students ACTIVELY involved in the process of learning. It gives me so many great ideas... Best, justine Mike:
Thank you for the prompt reply. Any way you distribute the information- I think it will be an extremely useful format for teaching. I think having an element of interaction between instructors using the format would be great. I especially like the idea of being able to post comments etc. Perhaps you can develop a structure that will result in both a published manuscript of “instructions” and a wiki site- so you get the tenure credit and the benefits of the web?
I was also wondering if you have incorporated disease into the simulation? I would think it might be interesting if some populations had disease immunity and others could contract disease depending upon where they decided to explore or colonize?
I just really like this format that has students ACTIVELY involved in the process of learning. It gives me so many great ideas…
Best,
justine

]]> By: Michael Wesch http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-39844 Michael Wesch Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:02:14 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-39844 Hi Justine, Right now I'm thinking about what the best way to publish the material might be. I'm leaning towards the creation of a wiki where I would post all of my materials and then as more people try it they can post comments, revisions, and suggestions. There are lots of upsides to doing a wiki. The major downside is how it affects my tenure. If I publish an official manual with a textbook company, it counts as credit towards tenure. A wiki is less "countable". Its just one example of how structures may need to change to take advantage of the collaborative possibilities of Web 2.0 technologies. Hi Justine,
Right now I’m thinking about what the best way to publish the material might be. I’m leaning towards the creation of a wiki where I would post all of my materials and then as more people try it they can post comments, revisions, and suggestions.
There are lots of upsides to doing a wiki. The major downside is how it affects my tenure. If I publish an official manual with a textbook company, it counts as credit towards tenure. A wiki is less “countable”. Its just one example of how structures may need to change to take advantage of the collaborative possibilities of Web 2.0 technologies.

]]> By: Justine Lemos http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-39842 Justine Lemos Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:37:23 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-39842 Dear Mike: Do you have any plans to publish instructions for the World Simulation for use in other Intro to Anthro classes. I teach Intro to Anthro and this sounds like a revolutionary curricullum! Really exciting stuff- I just want to know more, but I understand that you can't post it here. Best, justine lemos MA Dance MA Anthropology Dear Mike:
Do you have any plans to publish instructions for the World Simulation for use in other Intro to Anthro classes. I teach Intro to Anthro and this sounds like a revolutionary curricullum! Really exciting stuff- I just want to know more, but I understand that you can’t post it here.
Best,
justine lemos
MA Dance
MA Anthropology

]]> By: Mike http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-15342 Mike Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:22:53 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-15342 I just posted one of the shorter "world history" videos from the world simulation on <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHYtrC7RSU" rel="nofollow">YouTube</a>. It is summer vacation here in Kansas so I can safely post the video without worrying about students seeing the secrets and surprises in store for them in the next simulation. It will only be up for a couple weeks. Thanks again to all those who joined this conversation back in April. It helped to make the most recent World Simulation the most successful one yet! (Unfortunately the video from the most recent sim would not load on YouTube as it is over 20 minutes long. This is from a previous World Sim.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHYtrC7RSU I just posted one of the shorter “world history” videos from the world simulation on YouTube. It is summer vacation here in Kansas so I can safely post the video without worrying about students seeing the secrets and surprises in store for them in the next simulation. It will only be up for a couple weeks. Thanks again to all those who joined this conversation back in April. It helped to make the most recent World Simulation the most successful one yet! (Unfortunately the video from the most recent sim would not load on YouTube as it is over 20 minutes long. This is from a previous World Sim.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHYtrC7RSU

]]> By: Roughtheory.org » Michael Wesch at Savage Minds http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-5355 Roughtheory.org » Michael Wesch at Savage Minds Tue, 25 Apr 2006 03:10:47 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-5355 [...] Michael has written several posts about a fantastic, semester-long World Simulation project that he uses to lead students to discover interesting and relevant questions about the interactions of material environment, culture, and historical contingencies in the historical development of the contemporary world. [...] [...] Michael has written several posts about a fantastic, semester-long World Simulation project that he uses to lead students to discover interesting and relevant questions about the interactions of material environment, culture, and historical contingencies in the historical development of the contemporary world. [...]

]]> By: Rex http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-4992 Rex Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:49:39 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-4992 I must admit I myself have always imagined a "Melanesia: The MMOG" which involved lots of pig exchange, gender segregation, and occasionaly hunting. I must admit I myself have always imagined a “Melanesia: The MMOG” which involved lots of pig exchange, gender segregation, and occasionaly hunting.

]]> By: Andreas http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-4989 Andreas Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:00:13 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-4989 With regards to comparing this simulation to computer games, it reminds me of <a href="http://alligevel.blogspot.com/2005/08/world-of-real-lives.html" rel="nofollow">an idea for a MMORPG</a> that I toyed with at one point. It seeks to leave the grand-scale Civilization-esque perspective behind and engage the individual player with her own ambitions and talents. My central problem was that it might simply not be fun enough to work as a computer game. With regards to comparing this simulation to computer games, it reminds me of an idea for a MMORPG that I toyed with at one point.

It seeks to leave the grand-scale Civilization-esque perspective behind and engage the individual player with her own ambitions and talents. My central problem was that it might simply not be fun enough to work as a computer game.

]]> By: Ozma http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-4966 Ozma Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:31:15 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-4966 okay -- so the point is to have the world come out the way it *did* come out, not to set up a "go" position and see what comes of it, come what may. It actually makes a good point about historical contingency -- how hard it is to grasp intellectually as, though history may BE contingent as it happens, we only ever experience ONE of its possible outcomes. okay — so the point is to have the world come out the way it *did* come out, not to set up a “go” position and see what comes of it, come what may. It actually makes a good point about historical contingency — how hard it is to grasp intellectually as, though history may BE contingent as it happens, we only ever experience ONE of its possible outcomes.

]]> By: Mike http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-4964 Mike Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:47:36 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-4964 Kerim, it sounds like we approach this subject in very similar ways. I did not get into this in this post, but the great thing about the simulation is that it actually does get into how global and local systems of power interrelate. For example, oftentimes a few members of a group will become the intermediaries between the colonizer and the local people. These intermediaries often become “proximate colonizers” (to use a term from Gewertz and Errington - former guest bloggers here) and recreate the colonizer/colonized power structure within the colony. In a more specific example in Spring 2005, several students fled to Evitarcul as refugees, an area that did not start off as a nation-state but formed one in the third round. The people of Evitarcul put the refugees to work doing the hard labor they had originally been required to do by the circumstances of their colonization. Evitarcul became a “semi-periphery” between the core and periphery. There are also 2 classes after the actual simulation to discuss the nuances of what occurred. We discuss the interrelationships of global and local systems of power during that time, using what occurred in the simulation as examples. For me, the primary value of the simulation is the questions it raises about how the world works. As far as I am concerned, the more the simulation is set up wrong, the better it is for learning. By inviting students to be part of the rule-making process, it forces all of us to ask questions like those Ozma just raised. “Do there have to be battles?" is not only a question we can ask about the way we set up the simulation, it is also a question about our world, both past and present. More to the point of Ozma’s questions, nothing in the rules of the simulation given to students dictates that battles must happen. Students are free to interact and interrelate with others in all kinds of ways beyond battling them. The hard power cards are only in the game in case people want to have a battle. Without them we would just be left to smackdown-style brawls, and that wouldn’t be good. Rereading my post, I can see where it would seem that battles form the core of the simulation. In actual practice they are a very small part. It is just one of the few things that I have to be very clear about in the rules. Other ways of interacting do not require cards or rules because they are up to the students to invent along the way. “Isn’t a danger inherent to the rule-setting that they learn a lesson about the inevitability of inequality?” is another great question – and a very difficult one. There is no doubt that we live in a world that is profoundly unequal. The simulation is attempting to discover the processes that have led to this inequality (both within and between different societies). If the simulation does not produce inequality, then somehow we missed something in our simulation. I don’t think the lesson is that inequality is inevitable though. The lesson is that while inequality is not the fault of any one single individual, or even one particular group of individuals, it is in a way the fault of every one of us who in our own small way is contributing to our current global structure of inequality. This structure is so big that it is invisible. The simulation tries to bring this structure into one room so we can catch a brief glimpse of it and then begin thinking about how we can start to change it. Kerim, it sounds like we approach this subject in very similar ways. I did not get into this in this post, but the great thing about the simulation is that it actually does get into how global and local systems of power interrelate. For example, oftentimes a few members of a group will become the intermediaries between the colonizer and the local people. These intermediaries often become “proximate colonizers” (to use a term from Gewertz and Errington – former guest bloggers here) and recreate the colonizer/colonized power structure within the colony. In a more specific example in Spring 2005, several students fled to Evitarcul as refugees, an area that did not start off as a nation-state but formed one in the third round. The people of Evitarcul put the refugees to work doing the hard labor they had originally been required to do by the circumstances of their colonization. Evitarcul became a “semi-periphery” between the core and periphery.

There are also 2 classes after the actual simulation to discuss the nuances of what occurred. We discuss the interrelationships of global and local systems of power during that time, using what occurred in the simulation as examples.

For me, the primary value of the simulation is the questions it raises about how the world works. As far as I am concerned, the more the simulation is set up wrong, the better it is for learning. By inviting students to be part of the rule-making process, it forces all of us to ask questions like those Ozma just raised. “Do there have to be battles?” is not only a question we can ask about the way we set up the simulation, it is also a question about our world, both past and present.

More to the point of Ozma’s questions, nothing in the rules of the simulation given to students dictates that battles must happen. Students are free to interact and interrelate with others in all kinds of ways beyond battling them. The hard power cards are only in the game in case people want to have a battle. Without them we would just be left to smackdown-style brawls, and that wouldn’t be good.

Rereading my post, I can see where it would seem that battles form the core of the simulation. In actual practice they are a very small part. It is just one of the few things that I have to be very clear about in the rules. Other ways of interacting do not require cards or rules because they are up to the students to invent along the way.

“Isn’t a danger inherent to the rule-setting that they learn a lesson about the inevitability of inequality?” is another great question – and a very difficult one. There is no doubt that we live in a world that is profoundly unequal. The simulation is attempting to discover the processes that have led to this inequality (both within and between different societies). If the simulation does not produce inequality, then somehow we missed something in our simulation.

I don’t think the lesson is that inequality is inevitable though. The lesson is that while inequality is not the fault of any one single individual, or even one particular group of individuals, it is in a way the fault of every one of us who in our own small way is contributing to our current global structure of inequality. This structure is so big that it is invisible. The simulation tries to bring this structure into one room so we can catch a brief glimpse of it and then begin thinking about how we can start to change it.

]]> By: Ozma http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-4963 Ozma Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:22:47 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-4963 do there have to be battles? Couldn't cultures interact in, um, another way? I mean, it seems like the rules are very much like classic rpg rules: now we have a fight! if a major part of the simulation is geared toward conflict, of course there will be winners and losers. do there have to be battles? Couldn’t cultures interact in, um, another way? I mean, it seems like the rules are very much like classic rpg rules: now we have a fight! if a major part of the simulation is geared toward conflict, of course there will be winners and losers.

]]> By: Ozma http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-4962 Ozma Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:14:48 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-4962 I had the same reaction as AGSG -- are you a former gamer, Mike (it's okay, this is a safe space for such confessions)? And I wonder how much students' readiness to get into this simulation has to do with experience with role-playing games where parameters are set out by cards. A question I now have is what kinds of lessons the students take home from the "stacked deck": is there a way the World Sim can be played out with some sort of harmonious equality of distribution of goods, happiness, & relatively intact ecosystems and so forth as the outcome? Isn't a danger inherent to the rule-setting that they learn a lesson about the inevitability of inequality? Would there be a way to construct the simulation (and this isn't meant to make you pound your head against the wall, as obviously you've put a huge amount of work/thought into the simulation already) so that a kind of crap outcome for many societies isn't a foregone conclusion of the exercise no matter what choices the simulators make? I had the same reaction as AGSG — are you a former gamer, Mike (it’s okay, this is a safe space for such confessions)? And I wonder how much students’ readiness to get into this simulation has to do with experience with role-playing games where parameters are set out by cards.

A question I now have is what kinds of lessons the students take home from the “stacked deck”: is there a way the World Sim can be played out with some sort of harmonious equality of distribution of goods, happiness, & relatively intact ecosystems and so forth as the outcome? Isn’t a danger inherent to the rule-setting that they learn a lesson about the inevitability of inequality? Would there be a way to construct the simulation (and this isn’t meant to make you pound your head against the wall, as obviously you’ve put a huge amount of work/thought into the simulation already) so that a kind of crap outcome for many societies isn’t a foregone conclusion of the exercise no matter what choices the simulators make?

]]> By: Kerim http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-4958 Kerim Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:09:48 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-4958 One of the criticisms of Dependency/World System theory is that it over emphasizes the Colonizer/Colonized relationship and doesn't pay enough attention to the specific forms of exploitative power relationships that exist/emerge within the colony. Now, I love using books like <em>Global Rift</em> to teach the basics of World History from a dependency theory perspective before going into a Subaltern Studies critique, since I think it is important to fully understand dependency theory before one begins to go into the question of how global and local systems of power interrelate ... but I'm wondering whether it is possible to discuss such questions within the scope of this game? One of the criticisms of Dependency/World System theory is that it over emphasizes the Colonizer/Colonized relationship and doesn’t pay enough attention to the specific forms of exploitative power relationships that exist/emerge within the colony. Now, I love using books like Global Rift to teach the basics of World History from a dependency theory perspective before going into a Subaltern Studies critique, since I think it is important to fully understand dependency theory before one begins to go into the question of how global and local systems of power interrelate … but I’m wondering whether it is possible to discuss such questions within the scope of this game?

]]> By: orange. http://savageminds.org/2006/04/09/world-simulation-part-two-the-basics/comment-page-1/#comment-4932 orange. Sun, 09 Apr 2006 23:29:21 +0000 http://savageminds.org/?p=443#comment-4932 thx. This was very concrete! I begin to figure it out now. My main understanding problem was connecting ballroom action with digital visualization, which I falsely had understood to be the basic element of the simulation. thx. This was very concrete! I begin to figure it out now. My main understanding problem was connecting ballroom action with digital visualization, which I falsely had understood to be the basic element of the simulation.

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