<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Anthropology’s Guns, Germs, and Steel Problem</title>
	<atom:link href="http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/</link>
	<description>Notes and Queries in Anthropology — A Group Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:13:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: John McCreery</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-627080</link>
		<dc:creator>John McCreery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 02:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-627080</guid>
		<description>Sometimes a micro perspective can help to clear the air. Thus, for example, on Boxing Day (12/26) my wife and I made a day trip to the Tomioka Silk Mill, where, the local story goes, the industrialization of Japan began. The tour guide did an excellent job of combining the global and local dimensions of the Silk Mill&#039;s founding. 

The year was Meiji 3 (1871). The Meiji oligarchs, pursuing the goal of catching up with the West, were eager to import Western technology and Western experts to teach Japanese how to build and use it. But they needed something to sell to pay for the imports. Japan produced silk, and foreign traders based in Yokohama were ready to buy it. In Japan, however, silk was still a cottage industry. The irregularities in the thread caused stoppages and wastage in European industrial looms, reducing the price and thus the income generated. The new silk mill would solve that problem.

But that was just part of the story. Historically, the silk thread used by European silk textile manufacturers had been produced in France, Italy or China. Then, however, a silkworm plague decimated silk production in France and Italy, and China fell into the chaos following the Taiping Rebillion (1850-1864) and subsequent events leading to the end of the Qing Dynasty in 1911. That is why those foreign traders were in Yokohama, looking for silk from Japan. One of them was Paul Brunat, the French silk expert whom the Meiji government commissioned to find a suitable site and arrange for the construction of their new silk mill.

How, then, did the mill wind up in Tomioka, in Gunma Prefecture, instead of in Nagano or Yamanashi, neighboring prefectures were silk was also produced? Our guide listed five factors.

1. A large chunk of available land on which to build a factory. In Japan, where property rights are fiercely protected, this was a serious consideration. In Tomioka, the government already owned land, a site acquired by the Tokugawa Shogunate for a never completed military training ground. 
2. Locally accessible clay suitable for bricks. Five kilometers in one direction.
3. Locally accessible coal to power steam-driven machinery. Five kilometers in another direction.
4. Water for simmering the silkworm cocoons to loosen the thread. A deep river running beside the site.
5. A welcoming local community. Here it is important to remember that foreigners were still unwelcome in Japan and the Meiji government was still on shaky ground. The Satsuma Rebellion, the last uprising of the samurai against the new government occurred in 1877, two years after the Tomioka Silk Mill went into operation in 1875, Tomioka, however, was home to several prominent silk traders already doing business with Yokohama, who saw the new mill as a chance to expand their business.

Together, these conditions made Tomioka the site of choice. Brunat, who was French, engaged a French architect working on the new imperial shipyards in Yokosuka (down the coast from Yokohama) to design the factory, which thus bears a striking resemblance to the shipyard buildings and is now one of three major historic brick structures surviving in Japan in which the bricks are laid in the French instead of the British style. 

Brunat also engaged several young French engineers to install the plant&#039;s machinery and four French women, all experienced industrial spinners, to train their Japanese counterparts. One of the women they trained became a trainer herself, traveling around Japan and training spinners for other factories that soon sprang up in other parts of the country. Her diary is now the primary source for information about the working conditions of the Japanese women who provided most of the new silk industry&#039;s factory floor labor force. 

What impresses me most about this case is the clear articulation of an historic opportunity (demand for Japanese silk due to the collapse of silk production in France, Italy and China), the availability of resources, both natural resources in and around Tomioka, and human resources, the French engineers and spinners, who, I suspect, were willing to travel half way around the world to a very strange new place because their industry at home was in the pits, the related technology, and a new government bent on catching up with the West and preventing Japan from sharing China&#039;s fate during its encounters with Western Imperialism.

How to model these processes? Need something at least as sophisticated as Sim City. The usual sorts of simplifications to which the social sciences are prone are, alas, too simplistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes a micro perspective can help to clear the air. Thus, for example, on Boxing Day (12/26) my wife and I made a day trip to the Tomioka Silk Mill, where, the local story goes, the industrialization of Japan began. The tour guide did an excellent job of combining the global and local dimensions of the Silk Mill&#8217;s founding. </p>
<p>The year was Meiji 3 (1871). The Meiji oligarchs, pursuing the goal of catching up with the West, were eager to import Western technology and Western experts to teach Japanese how to build and use it. But they needed something to sell to pay for the imports. Japan produced silk, and foreign traders based in Yokohama were ready to buy it. In Japan, however, silk was still a cottage industry. The irregularities in the thread caused stoppages and wastage in European industrial looms, reducing the price and thus the income generated. The new silk mill would solve that problem.</p>
<p>But that was just part of the story. Historically, the silk thread used by European silk textile manufacturers had been produced in France, Italy or China. Then, however, a silkworm plague decimated silk production in France and Italy, and China fell into the chaos following the Taiping Rebillion (1850-1864) and subsequent events leading to the end of the Qing Dynasty in 1911. That is why those foreign traders were in Yokohama, looking for silk from Japan. One of them was Paul Brunat, the French silk expert whom the Meiji government commissioned to find a suitable site and arrange for the construction of their new silk mill.</p>
<p>How, then, did the mill wind up in Tomioka, in Gunma Prefecture, instead of in Nagano or Yamanashi, neighboring prefectures were silk was also produced? Our guide listed five factors.</p>
<p>1. A large chunk of available land on which to build a factory. In Japan, where property rights are fiercely protected, this was a serious consideration. In Tomioka, the government already owned land, a site acquired by the Tokugawa Shogunate for a never completed military training ground.<br />
2. Locally accessible clay suitable for bricks. Five kilometers in one direction.<br />
3. Locally accessible coal to power steam-driven machinery. Five kilometers in another direction.<br />
4. Water for simmering the silkworm cocoons to loosen the thread. A deep river running beside the site.<br />
5. A welcoming local community. Here it is important to remember that foreigners were still unwelcome in Japan and the Meiji government was still on shaky ground. The Satsuma Rebellion, the last uprising of the samurai against the new government occurred in 1877, two years after the Tomioka Silk Mill went into operation in 1875, Tomioka, however, was home to several prominent silk traders already doing business with Yokohama, who saw the new mill as a chance to expand their business.</p>
<p>Together, these conditions made Tomioka the site of choice. Brunat, who was French, engaged a French architect working on the new imperial shipyards in Yokosuka (down the coast from Yokohama) to design the factory, which thus bears a striking resemblance to the shipyard buildings and is now one of three major historic brick structures surviving in Japan in which the bricks are laid in the French instead of the British style. </p>
<p>Brunat also engaged several young French engineers to install the plant&#8217;s machinery and four French women, all experienced industrial spinners, to train their Japanese counterparts. One of the women they trained became a trainer herself, traveling around Japan and training spinners for other factories that soon sprang up in other parts of the country. Her diary is now the primary source for information about the working conditions of the Japanese women who provided most of the new silk industry&#8217;s factory floor labor force. </p>
<p>What impresses me most about this case is the clear articulation of an historic opportunity (demand for Japanese silk due to the collapse of silk production in France, Italy and China), the availability of resources, both natural resources in and around Tomioka, and human resources, the French engineers and spinners, who, I suspect, were willing to travel half way around the world to a very strange new place because their industry at home was in the pits, the related technology, and a new government bent on catching up with the West and preventing Japan from sharing China&#8217;s fate during its encounters with Western Imperialism.</p>
<p>How to model these processes? Need something at least as sophisticated as Sim City. The usual sorts of simplifications to which the social sciences are prone are, alas, too simplistic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zhao</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-627079</link>
		<dc:creator>zhao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-627079</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the suggestion.  this web-of-interaction model looks like a good contender to round off or complement the geography/resource model -- which i&#039;m not going to abandon at this time.  For while i recognize the validity of a lot of your criticisms, and see the outright falsehood of parts of Diamond&#039;s claims, as well as short comings in some of his thinking, i do think the work remains useful, as well as having predominantly positive, i.e. against ignorance and racism, effects on the world...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the suggestion.  this web-of-interaction model looks like a good contender to round off or complement the geography/resource model &#8212; which i&#8217;m not going to abandon at this time.  For while i recognize the validity of a lot of your criticisms, and see the outright falsehood of parts of Diamond&#8217;s claims, as well as short comings in some of his thinking, i do think the work remains useful, as well as having predominantly positive, i.e. against ignorance and racism, effects on the world&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-627078</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 19:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-627078</guid>
		<description>The human web : a bird&#039;s-eye view of world history
Author: 	John Robert McNeill; William Hardy McNeill
Publisher: 	New York : W.W. Norton, ©2003.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The human web : a bird&#8217;s-eye view of world history<br />
Author: 	John Robert McNeill; William Hardy McNeill<br />
Publisher: 	New York : W.W. Norton, ©2003.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zhao</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-627075</link>
		<dc:creator>zhao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-627075</guid>
		<description>Thanks to all, has been an enlightening read (article and all 80 comments).   My previous position is currently in the process of revision -- but i&#039;m finding it difficult to continue.  It&#039;s not just a matter of where to put the bricks that have been taken out of the GG&amp;S model, which sits there in a more or less half dismantled state, but i am in need of an alternate, more factually accurate, more accountable, less skewed, less &quot;crypto-racist&quot;, more considering of structural racism, but perhaps steering clear of reverse racism, explanatory model.  

i will read James Blaut next, as well as continue reading more of this blog.  but no review of his work suggests that it will provide such an alternate model.  i do hope i find something akin to what i am looking for somewhere but something tells me that maybe it doesn&#039;t exist, or at least not in the concise form that i hope for -- perhaps it is just too complex ???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to all, has been an enlightening read (article and all 80 comments).   My previous position is currently in the process of revision &#8212; but i&#8217;m finding it difficult to continue.  It&#8217;s not just a matter of where to put the bricks that have been taken out of the GG&amp;S model, which sits there in a more or less half dismantled state, but i am in need of an alternate, more factually accurate, more accountable, less skewed, less &#8220;crypto-racist&#8221;, more considering of structural racism, but perhaps steering clear of reverse racism, explanatory model.  </p>
<p>i will read James Blaut next, as well as continue reading more of this blog.  but no review of his work suggests that it will provide such an alternate model.  i do hope i find something akin to what i am looking for somewhere but something tells me that maybe it doesn&#8217;t exist, or at least not in the concise form that i hope for &#8212; perhaps it is just too complex ???</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Diaz</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-607240</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Diaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-607240</guid>
		<description>Not an expert nor an academic.  I would like to add my two sense about something.  I&#039;ve seen commenters on this site as well as others referring to very recent (relative the time span covered in the book)systems such as capitalism to refute the book.

In my judgment, self-determination for various peoples has been declining rapidly for at least three centuries.  &quot;Advances&quot; in military technology, communication, beaurocratic systems, economics, etc... make it much easier for the conquerers (particularly when conquering a people with significant technological disadvantages) to squelch any meaningful independent political, economic, or scientific acitivity deemed &quot;undesireable&quot; that begins to arise from the conquered.  

Look at Israel and Palestine.  Israel very deliberately and effectively tries to keep Palestinians as &quot;backwards&quot; as possible, regardless of what the Palestinians wish.

In fact, keeping people enslaved nowadays is much more subtle and &quot;clean&quot; than it oncce was.  Corporations and governments,either very secretely or subtlely, maintain hegemony over nations and regions from afar using puppet figures willing to sell out their own people for cash and ego.  

If anyone is still reading this thread and has any thoughts on what I&#039;ve said, I&#039;d like to hear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not an expert nor an academic.  I would like to add my two sense about something.  I&#8217;ve seen commenters on this site as well as others referring to very recent (relative the time span covered in the book)systems such as capitalism to refute the book.</p>
<p>In my judgment, self-determination for various peoples has been declining rapidly for at least three centuries.  &#8220;Advances&#8221; in military technology, communication, beaurocratic systems, economics, etc&#8230; make it much easier for the conquerers (particularly when conquering a people with significant technological disadvantages) to squelch any meaningful independent political, economic, or scientific acitivity deemed &#8220;undesireable&#8221; that begins to arise from the conquered.  </p>
<p>Look at Israel and Palestine.  Israel very deliberately and effectively tries to keep Palestinians as &#8220;backwards&#8221; as possible, regardless of what the Palestinians wish.</p>
<p>In fact, keeping people enslaved nowadays is much more subtle and &#8220;clean&#8221; than it oncce was.  Corporations and governments,either very secretely or subtlely, maintain hegemony over nations and regions from afar using puppet figures willing to sell out their own people for cash and ego.  </p>
<p>If anyone is still reading this thread and has any thoughts on what I&#8217;ve said, I&#8217;d like to hear.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zenblitz &#187; Comment on Anthropology’s Guns, Germs, and Steel Problem by Allison</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-130986</link>
		<dc:creator>zenblitz &#187; Comment on Anthropology’s Guns, Germs, and Steel Problem by Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-130986</guid>
		<description>[...] full story here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] full story here [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Allison</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-130712</link>
		<dc:creator>Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 01:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-130712</guid>
		<description>I am a cultural anthropologist and just reading this book finally in 2007 wondering why I had not heard anthropologists engage with it constructively. I found this website tonight and am glad to see less of the usual academic bravado of straw men and the like, but certainly some of it. I find Randall&#039;s posts very constructive, and I find the Field Museum article the most well articulated engagement with Diamond mentioned in this post. The book should not be dismissed as environmental determinism or you&#039;ll go down the slippery slope of rejecting the entire field of archeology as material determinism. I would like archeologists to weigh in here.  I find Diamond&#039;s work one of the more environmentally INFORMED syntheses out there of a literature we cultural anthropologists aren&#039;t great at perusing (paleobotany, prehistoric geography). I really want to hear from archeologists. Also, why in the world hasn&#039;t an anthropologist put together as an accessible book sythesizing available prehistoric evidence they way Diamond did? He has done a great service to engage the public around these questions in such a widely read way. Shame on anthropology for letting a evolutionary bird specialist do this first, regardless of its criticisms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a cultural anthropologist and just reading this book finally in 2007 wondering why I had not heard anthropologists engage with it constructively. I found this website tonight and am glad to see less of the usual academic bravado of straw men and the like, but certainly some of it. I find Randall&#8217;s posts very constructive, and I find the Field Museum article the most well articulated engagement with Diamond mentioned in this post. The book should not be dismissed as environmental determinism or you&#8217;ll go down the slippery slope of rejecting the entire field of archeology as material determinism. I would like archeologists to weigh in here.  I find Diamond&#8217;s work one of the more environmentally INFORMED syntheses out there of a literature we cultural anthropologists aren&#8217;t great at perusing (paleobotany, prehistoric geography). I really want to hear from archeologists. Also, why in the world hasn&#8217;t an anthropologist put together as an accessible book sythesizing available prehistoric evidence they way Diamond did? He has done a great service to engage the public around these questions in such a widely read way. Shame on anthropology for letting a evolutionary bird specialist do this first, regardless of its criticisms.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kerim</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-121647</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-121647</guid>
		<description>Now that is a low blow. 

Leave my MacBook out of this!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that is a low blow. </p>
<p>Leave my MacBook out of this!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Manuel</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-121582</link>
		<dc:creator>Manuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-121582</guid>
		<description>Sorry to break it to everyone, but Jared Diamond&#039;s GGS theory is just &quot;scientific predestination&quot; theory rehashed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel#Criticism_of_Eurocentrism_and_determinism

Instead of Europeans being superior by their DNA, now Europeans are predestined to be superior by their ENVIRONMENT&#039;S DNA. The &quot;magic&quot; remains Eurocentric, even though most major inventions prior to 1492 were NOT invented by Europeans (e.g. the wheel, cities, writing, guns, gunpowder, steel, crossbows, windmills, water wheels, geometry, castles, paper, books, printing press, magnetic compass, chariots, 360 degrees, zero, and on and on...)


Read James Blaut&#039;s &quot;Eight Eurocentric Historians&quot; to see Diamond&#039;s theory demolished point by point:
http://www.amazon.com/Eight-Eurocentric-Historians-J-M-Blaut/dp/1572305916/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0554598-3254430?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1190739339&amp;sr=8-1


Caution: For those infatuated with Jared Diamond&#039;s theory, your heart will be broken after reading Blaut!

Reading Jared Diamond&#039;s books are like Apple Macs: young White males are in love with it, and the rest seem indifferent to the gushing emotion-fest that is being displayed over it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to break it to everyone, but Jared Diamond&#8217;s GGS theory is just &#8220;scientific predestination&#8221; theory rehashed:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel#Criticism_of_Eurocentrism_and_determinism" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel#Criticism_of_Eurocentrism_and_determinism</a></p>
<p>Instead of Europeans being superior by their DNA, now Europeans are predestined to be superior by their ENVIRONMENT&#8217;S DNA. The &#8220;magic&#8221; remains Eurocentric, even though most major inventions prior to 1492 were NOT invented by Europeans (e.g. the wheel, cities, writing, guns, gunpowder, steel, crossbows, windmills, water wheels, geometry, castles, paper, books, printing press, magnetic compass, chariots, 360 degrees, zero, and on and on&#8230;)</p>
<p>Read James Blaut&#8217;s &#8220;Eight Eurocentric Historians&#8221; to see Diamond&#8217;s theory demolished point by point:<br />
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Eight-Eurocentric-Historians-J-M-Blaut/dp/1572305916/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0554598-3254430?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1190739339&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Eight-Eurocentric-Historians-J-M-Blaut/dp/1572305916/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0554598-3254430?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1190739339&amp;sr=8-1</a></p>
<p>Caution: For those infatuated with Jared Diamond&#8217;s theory, your heart will be broken after reading Blaut!</p>
<p>Reading Jared Diamond&#8217;s books are like Apple Macs: young White males are in love with it, and the rest seem indifferent to the gushing emotion-fest that is being displayed over it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adding It Up &#171; Disparate</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-22708</link>
		<dc:creator>Adding It Up &#171; Disparate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-22708</guid>
		<description>[...] Starting up with my own comments about Yu Koyo Peya and Jared Diamond&#8217;s Collapse. It&#8217;s no secret that Diamond&#8217;s approach often clashes with the anthropological tendency toward critical thinking. But still&#8230; From The Matrix, Agent Smith saying that humans are a disease. The YKP on-screen message that &#8220;civilization&#8221; (however defined) is the disease. A further claim could be that a specific civilization is a disease. Fun to think about. Where does it lead us, exactly? And, really, what do we mean by &#8220;civilization&#8221; in those cases? State-level &#8220;democracy&#8221; based on the illusion of national identity and individual autonomy, and motivated by market economy? And that&#8217;s all so important why, exactly? After all, there are alternatives of different types and in different places&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Starting up with my own comments about Yu Koyo Peya and Jared Diamond&#8217;s Collapse. It&#8217;s no secret that Diamond&#8217;s approach often clashes with the anthropological tendency toward critical thinking. But still&#8230; From The Matrix, Agent Smith saying that humans are a disease. The YKP on-screen message that &#8220;civilization&#8221; (however defined) is the disease. A further claim could be that a specific civilization is a disease. Fun to think about. Where does it lead us, exactly? And, really, what do we mean by &#8220;civilization&#8221; in those cases? State-level &#8220;democracy&#8221; based on the illusion of national identity and individual autonomy, and motivated by market economy? And that&#8217;s all so important why, exactly? After all, there are alternatives of different types and in different places&#8230; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Late August Quickies &#171; Disparate</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-22110</link>
		<dc:creator>Late August Quickies &#171; Disparate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-22110</guid>
		<description>[...] Needs discussion (imprecise notion of &#8220;tribe,&#8221; romanticization of foragers, Deep Forest&#8217;s reappropriation, moralistic and manichean perspective, U.S. orientation, Jared Diamond&#8230;). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Needs discussion (imprecise notion of &#8220;tribe,&#8221; romanticization of foragers, Deep Forest&#8217;s reappropriation, moralistic and manichean perspective, U.S. orientation, Jared Diamond&#8230;). [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Right Reason: Quasi-Racism</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-2497</link>
		<dc:creator>Right Reason: Quasi-Racism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 02:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-2497</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Enter &quot;Ozma&quot; of Savage Minds, a group anthropology blog. In this post, she complains that, according to Diamond, &quot;white people are immeasurably superior to everyone else on the planet, in terms of technology, wealth, store of knowledge, and actual power, and have been so for a long time.&quot; Moreover, &quot;Diamond’s account...poisonously whispers: mope about colonialism, slavery, capitalism, racism, and predatory neo-imperialism all you want, but these were/are nobody’s fault...This is a wicked cop-out. Worse still, it is a profound insult to all non-Western cultures/societies. It basically says they’re sorta pathetic, but that bless their hearts, they couldn’t/can’t help it. Such an assertion...is a sham sort of anti-racism.&quot; [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Enter &#8220;Ozma&#8221; of Savage Minds, a group anthropology blog. In this post, she complains that, according to Diamond, &#8220;white people are immeasurably superior to everyone else on the planet, in terms of technology, wealth, store of knowledge, and actual power, and have been so for a long time.&#8221; Moreover, &#8220;Diamond’s account&#8230;poisonously whispers: mope about colonialism, slavery, capitalism, racism, and predatory neo-imperialism all you want, but these were/are nobody’s fault&#8230;This is a wicked cop-out. Worse still, it is a profound insult to all non-Western cultures/societies. It basically says they’re sorta pathetic, but that bless their hearts, they couldn’t/can’t help it. Such an assertion&#8230;is a sham sort of anti-racism.&#8221; [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-2386</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-2386</guid>
		<description>And his new &quot;Collapses&quot; deserve being read. It&#039;s about hte reasons of former societies collapses.  He analyses what caused the falls down of many ancient and simply old societies and distinguishes several reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And his new &#8220;Collapses&#8221; deserve being read. It&#8217;s about hte reasons of former societies collapses.  He analyses what caused the falls down of many ancient and simply old societies and distinguishes several reasons.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Savage Minds: Notes and Queries in Anthropology — A Group Blog &#187; Anthropology’s Guns, Germs, and Steel Problem</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-2353</link>
		<dc:creator>Savage Minds: Notes and Queries in Anthropology — A Group Blog &#187; Anthropology’s Guns, Germs, and Steel Problem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 08:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-2353</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Sun 24 Jul 2005 Anthropology’s Guns, Germs, and Steel Problem Posted by Ozma under In the Press , Reviews , Regions , Race , Technology , Political Economy , Books and Articles , Public Anthropology , Nature, Ecology, the Environment&#160; [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Sun 24 Jul 2005 Anthropology’s Guns, Germs, and Steel Problem Posted by Ozma under In the Press , Reviews , Regions , Race , Technology , Political Economy , Books and Articles , Public Anthropology , Nature, Ecology, the Environment&nbsp; [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daily Kos: State of the Nation</title>
		<link>http://savageminds.org/2005/07/24/anthropology%e2%80%99s-guns-germs-and-steel-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-2335</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily Kos: State of the Nation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 10:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://savageminds.org/?p=155#comment-2335</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] ...book, Guns, Germs and Steel, I was excited when Collapse came out. I must say I was rather disappointed, In part, I suppose, because his previous tour de force contained such a tremendous amount of original insight, while the current bit is far less so. For one thing, that Easter Island collapse is not exactly a new idea. I first read about it, I believe, in the 1980s. Ditto the Norse collapse in Greenland. More importantly, I think there&#039;s a good deal to be said for the argument of those who have complained that Diamond&#039;s view that the people of Easter Island - Rapa Nui - brought on their own demise ignores the European genocide there. Now, I don&#039;t believe that Diamond is himself a conscious racist, as some have claimed. One critic is Benny Peiser. An excerpt: While the theory of ecocide has become almost paradigmatic in environmental circles, a dark and gory secret hangs over the premise of Easter Island&#039;s selfdestruction: an actual genocide terminated Rapa Nui&#039;s indigenous populace and its culture. Diamond ignores, or neglects to address the true reasons behind Rapa Nui&#039;s collapse. Other researchers have no doubt that its people, their culture and its environment were destroyed to all intents and purposes by European slave-traders, whalers and colonists - and not by themselves! After all, the cruelty and systematic kidnapping by European slave-merchants, the near-extermination of the Island&#039;s indigenous population and the deliberate destruction of the island&#039;s environment has been regarded as &quot;one of the most hideous atrocities committed by white men in the South Seas&quot; (M&#233;traux, 1957:38), &quot;perhaps the most dreadful piece of genocide in Polynesian history&quot; (Bellwood, 1978:363). So why does Diamond maintain that Easter Island&#039;s celebrated culture, famous for its sophisticated architecture and giant stone statues, committed its own environmental suicide? How did the once well-known accounts about the &quot;fatal impact&quot; (Moorehead, 1966) of European disease, slavery and genocide - &quot;the catastrophe that wiped out Easter Island&#039;s civilisation&quot; (M&#233;traux, ibid.) - turn into a contemporary parable of selfinflicted ecocide? In short, why have the victims of cultural and physical extermination been turned into the perpetrators of their own demise? This paper is a first attempt to address this disquieting quandary. It describes the foundation of Diamond&#039;s environmental revisionism and explains why it does not hold up to scientific scrutiny. Read the rest at the link. Other commentary can be found here, and here, here and here, and some other good good links can be found here. &#160; [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] &#8230;book, Guns, Germs and Steel, I was excited when Collapse came out. I must say I was rather disappointed, In part, I suppose, because his previous tour de force contained such a tremendous amount of original insight, while the current bit is far less so. For one thing, that Easter Island collapse is not exactly a new idea. I first read about it, I believe, in the 1980s. Ditto the Norse collapse in Greenland. More importantly, I think there&#8217;s a good deal to be said for the argument of those who have complained that Diamond&#8217;s view that the people of Easter Island &#8211; Rapa Nui &#8211; brought on their own demise ignores the European genocide there. Now, I don&#8217;t believe that Diamond is himself a conscious racist, as some have claimed. One critic is Benny Peiser. An excerpt: While the theory of ecocide has become almost paradigmatic in environmental circles, a dark and gory secret hangs over the premise of Easter Island&#8217;s selfdestruction: an actual genocide terminated Rapa Nui&#8217;s indigenous populace and its culture. Diamond ignores, or neglects to address the true reasons behind Rapa Nui&#8217;s collapse. Other researchers have no doubt that its people, their culture and its environment were destroyed to all intents and purposes by European slave-traders, whalers and colonists &#8211; and not by themselves! After all, the cruelty and systematic kidnapping by European slave-merchants, the near-extermination of the Island&#8217;s indigenous population and the deliberate destruction of the island&#8217;s environment has been regarded as &#8220;one of the most hideous atrocities committed by white men in the South Seas&#8221; (M&#233;traux, 1957:38), &#8220;perhaps the most dreadful piece of genocide in Polynesian history&#8221; (Bellwood, 1978:363). So why does Diamond maintain that Easter Island&#8217;s celebrated culture, famous for its sophisticated architecture and giant stone statues, committed its own environmental suicide? How did the once well-known accounts about the &#8220;fatal impact&#8221; (Moorehead, 1966) of European disease, slavery and genocide &#8211; &#8220;the catastrophe that wiped out Easter Island&#8217;s civilisation&#8221; (M&#233;traux, ibid.) &#8211; turn into a contemporary parable of selfinflicted ecocide? In short, why have the victims of cultural and physical extermination been turned into the perpetrators of their own demise? This paper is a first attempt to address this disquieting quandary. It describes the foundation of Diamond&#8217;s environmental revisionism and explains why it does not hold up to scientific scrutiny. Read the rest at the link. Other commentary can be found here, and here, here and here, and some other good good links can be found here. &nbsp; [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
